LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.13 (02) [A/E/LS/S]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Mon May 13 21:10:30 UTC 2002
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L O W L A N D S - L * 13.MAY.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (06) [A]
Hallo almal,
In sy skrywe verwys Ron na die 'ladybird' wat onder andere in Frans
_bête à bon Dieu_,
in Laag Sorbies _boz^e sl/ónc^ko_ en in Laag Saksies _Herrgottskoh_
genoem word.
In Afrikaans praat ons van die "liewe Here besie". Dis nou vir die
kewertjie met die kolletjies lyfie en die rede dat ek vir 20 jaar nie
meer gif op my plante spuit nie, maar liewer 'n konkoksie van tabak,
olie en water kook en dit op my sitrusbome as teenmiddel spuit.
Groete!
Elsie Zinsser
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From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (05) [E/German]
Ron wrote:
> > Oh, yes, and then there's the largely unexplored world of Lowlandic
> > zoological names ... Take another type of bug, the ladybug (~
> > ladybird), for instance. In Dutch it is _lieveheersbeestje_ ("Dear
> > Lord's critter"), and in Low Saxon it has similar fancy names, such as
> > _Heergottskoh_ ~ _Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow"), _Sünnenkind_ ("sun
> > child"), _Sünnenküken_ ("sun chick"), _Maanküken_ ("moon chick") and
> > _Maankalf_ ("moon calf")!
Andrys Onsman replied:
> In Westerlauwers Frisian a ladybird is an ingeltsje - a little angel.
In my dialect of Zeêuws/Zeelandic, a ladybird is called
_papoenebeêstje_.
Other dialects of Zeelandic have forms like _pimpampoentje_,
_kapoenebeêstje_ and _pepoendertje_. I presume these names, that are
still
very much in use throughout Zeeland, derive from child language (as so
many
zoological names in Zeelandic do).
Regards,
Marco
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From: niels winther [niels.winther at dfdsseaways.com]
Subject: Lexicon
Ron wrote:
The Oxford dictionary refers to Danish _böllebær_ (sic. = _bøllebær_?)
under "bilberry." However, I can't find that name in Modern Danish,
only _blåbær_ ("blueberry," and _tyttebær_ for 'cranberry', whatever
_tytte_ may mean). So I assume *_bøllebær_ is archaic or non-standard.
----
Danish _blåbær_ is used in general for V.myrtillus, and today
also for V. corymbosum (the american cultivated species).
Locally _blåbær_ also is used for V.uliginosum (the berry
is also blue).
_Bølle_ is used locally for V.myrtillus or V.uliginosum
(they do not grow the same places, so no misunderstanding
is possible on the local plane).
In Dan. botanical nomenclature _bølle_ has survived as the
the scientific name of genus Vaccinium _bølleslægten_.
Botanically the native species are named
_blåbær_ : V.myrtillus L.
_mose-bølle_ : V.uliginosum L.
_tyttebær_ : V.vitis-idaea L.
_bølle_ is probably from *bhel i.e. cognates: bull, ball etc.
Etymology of _tytte-_ is unclear.
rgds
niels
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From: Edwin Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (05) [E/German]
At 08:13 PM 05/12/02 -0700, R. F. Hahn wrote:
> Old English, too, has _crôg_ and _crûke_,
And of course, Modern English has _crock_, as in "that's a crock (of
s--t)".
Ed Alexander
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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From: "W!M" <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (06) [E]
Hi,
There are also bugs and beetles called with the word "haantjes"
"haante" as
part of their name. In Dutch. (The male part of the chicken family...)
Maybe
some one else will remember the exact names...
W!M wim verdoold wkv at home.nl.
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Etymology"
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> I looked up 'ladybird' in _Chambers Concise English-Scots Dictionary_
> and came up with some really interesting ones too:
>
> (1) leddy launners
> (_leddy_ 'lady' -- What is _launners_? "Landers"?)
I'm familiar with this from the nursery rhyme:
Leddy, Leddy Landers,
Leddy, Leddy Landers,
Tak up yer coats aboot yer heid,
An flee awa tae Flanders.
landers: laundry-woman
heid: head
flee awa: fly away
> (2) (reid) sodger
> ("(red?) soldier")
I've never heard this expression, but "reid" does mean "red".
> (3) clock leddy
> ("clock lady"?)
Because "clock" is Scots for "beetle".
> (4) king('s) doctor Ellison
> (northwestern dialects -- There must be an interesting story behind
> this one.)
I've only heard the expression "Lady Ellison" for a ladybird.
I'd guess that "Ellison" could mean either "Alison" or "Alexander".
Regarding some of the other words that have come up on this
thread, "mowdiewarp", "mowdiewort" or just "mowdie", is Scots
for "mole":
The mowdiewort, the mowdiewort,
The mumpin baest the mowdiewort,
The craws haes pykit the mowdiewort,
The puir wee baest the mowdiewort.
mumpin: grumbling
craws: crows
pykit: picked
puir: poor
I believe bilberries are the wild version of blueberries.
In Scots, bilberries are "blaeberries".
Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
- C.W.Wade,
'The Adventures o McNab'
----------
From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.05.12 (01)
Ron hett schreeven:
...Ik glööv', "Smutt" hangt mit "Sutt" (~ "Sott" = düütsch "Ruß")
tosamen,
as ook ingelsch _smut_ 'a *smudge* of soot'....
Joo, Ron,
kann mi entsinnen: de "Smutje" hett sau heeten, ass hei jümmers in sien
Kombüüs (franz:? Du weitst de Herkunf?) swatt wonnen is von dat Füer. De
Heizers geef't tau noch nich, de wöern looter denn viellicht noch'n
beten
sotticher. Un dat *L* bi *smolt* un "Schmelze" koomt annerwärts wo her.
Obers- de "Smuttool" schull jo einnich nich sottich waarn, denn wöer dat
Füer tau dull- kann dat noch heel annerswo herkoomen? Viellicht hett dat
to
dauhn mit "smooth", dat wöer jo jümmer de lütte, weike, hauchdüütsch:
"zarte" Ool, de tau'n Brooden nohmen wüür.
Eirstmool adschüß
Fiete.
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
Fiete:
> Kombüüs (franz:? Du weitst de Herkunf?)
Nich uut 't Franzöössche, man de wahre Herkumst is nich seker.
"Kombüüs'" kümmt vun middelneddersassisch _kambüse_ < _kabüse_ ~
_kabûse_, vergl. middelnedderlandsch _cabûse_ ('ship's kitchen' =
'galley' < 'stall separated by means of boards'), vergl. ingelsch
_caboose_.
> Un dat *L* bi *smolt* un "Schmelze" koomt annerwärts wo her.
Nee. "Smutt" un "Smolt" sünd nich verwandt. "Smolt" kümmt vun
"smelten," und "Smutt" bedüüd' ehrmaals "Sottplacken."
Niels:
> _mose-bølle_ : V.uliginosum L.
German _Moosbeere_ ~ _Moor-Heidelbeere_ ~ _Rauschbeere_ ~
_Trunkelbeere_, English _bog bilberry_, Dutch _rijsbes_, French _airelle
des marais_, Polish _borówka bagienna_, Swedish _odon_, Norwegian
_blokkebær_, Icelandic _bláberjalyng_, Finnish _juolukka_, Italian
_mirtillo falso_, Russian _golubel'_, _golubic^ka_, etc..
Low Saxon (Low German) ....?
I wrote:
> Oh, yes, and then there's the largely unexplored world of Lowlandic
> zoological names ... Take another type of bug, the ladybug (~
> ladybird), for instance. In Dutch it is _lieveheersbeestje_ ("Dear
> Lord's critter"), and in Low Saxon it has similar fancy names, such as
> _Heergottskoh_ ~ _Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow"), _Sünnenkind_ ("sun
> child"), _Sünnenküken_ ("sun chick"), _Maanküken_ ("moon chick") and
> _Maankalf_ ("moon calf")!
> This particular animal seems to inspire a lot of creativity, tends to be
> a good luck symbol (because it is good for the garden, i.e., eats
> aphids?) and obviously is connected with divinity, (the Low Saxon and
> Dutch versions I have mentioned, plus French _coccinelle_ ~ _bête à bon
> Dieu_ "Good God's critter," Upper Sorbian _boz^e sl/ónc^ko_ "God's sun
> one," Lower Sorbian _bogowa wacka_ "God's (flying) bug," Russian
> _boz^"ja korovka_ "God's (little) cow," cf. Low Saxon _Herrgottskoh_
> 'id.'), in some cases Christian divinity, namely with reference to Mary
> ("Our Lady"), e.g., German _Marienkäfer_ ("Mary's beetle"), Danish
> _mariehøne_ ("Mary's hen"), hence references to "lady." Interestingly,
> this has spread to non-Christian spheres, e.g., Turkish _hanIm böceg^I_
> ("lady bug").
Yiddish has _moyshe rabeynes kiele_ ("little cow of Moses, our
Teacher/Master"). My theory is that it is derived from Russian _boz^"ja
korovka_ "God's (little) cow" or a related language, or that it goes
back to pre-eastward-migration times (cf. Low Saxon _Heergottskoh_ ~
_Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow")), and "Moses, our Master" is a
replacement for "God/Lord" (whose name cannot be mentioned in Judaism,
the word "God" itself having become taboo and being written "G..d" etc.
in orthodox circles).
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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