LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.10.04 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 04.OCT.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because have been subscribed upon request. To
 unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Ole Stig Andersen <osa at olestig.dk>
Subject: Kakatoe-Kakadu

Hi Ron-of Many-Languages


Heartened by the latest exchanges about Wolof, I dare to ask again a
question that may have got lost in the latest week or so's mail:

According to my Oxford Etymological the word _cockatoo_ comes from Malay
_kakatua_ (mening "big parrot"), the English rendering possibly influenced
by another bird's name, the cock.

In Danish the word is _kakadu_, contaminated by another bird, the dove, in
Danish "due". It is derived from Dutch _kaketoe_, the books say.

Is there any possible connection to the Australian _Kakadu_, a name for both
a (recently deceased) language, a tribe/people/nation and a National Park
where the bird in question lives?(also endangered, I believe). It is also
spelled Gagadju and Gagudju and lies in the Northern Territory where I think
Dutchmen came by in the 16th century, leaving place names like Arnhem Land
behind.

Or is Danish Kakadu and Australian Kakadu just a coincidence, like the
Dyirbal (another recently deceased Australian lg) word for "dog" is said to
be - "dog"!

Ole Stig Andersen
http://www.olestig.dk

----------

From: R. F. Hahn sassisch at yahoo.com
Subject: Lexicon

Hi, Ole Stig!

Now, now!  I don't want to acquire a reputation I haven't really earned,
even though I must confess that I did study Malay/Indonesian (only to let it
gather a crust of dust and rust in the meantime).

I did not ignore your posting, never ignore any.  :)  I've just been
ruminating about it.  You see, I have to confess that I--naively?--used to
assume that "cockatoo," German _Kakadu_, etc., were related to the Kakadu ~
Gagadu ~ Gagadju ~ Gagudju people and the Kakadu National Park in Northern
Australia.  I was quite surprised when I heard that the word was supposed to
have come from Malay via Dutch.

Now, what is interesting is that the actual Malay/Indonesian word for
'cockatoo' and loosely also for 'parrot' is _burung kakak tua_, literally
"kakak-tua bird" (with the final "k" unreleased, thus usually not perceived
by European ears).  Etymologically, it doesn't make any sense to me.
_Kakak_ means 'elder sister' and also appears in _kakak beradik_ 'brethren',
and _tua_ means 'old', 'ripe' or 'of dark color'.  Of course, this _kakak
tua_ could be onomatopoetic.

I don't really doubt that European languages got their equivalents from
Dutch via Malay/Indonesian.  However, I wonder if the _kakak tua_ part in
_burung kakak tua_ is native to Malay/Indonesian or is a loanword from an
Australian language.  I don't even know if cockatoos are native to Malaysia
and Indonesia, but I do know that they are native to Australia.

I don't know the Gagadu language and have no access to a reference book
about it.  I do know that in
Warlpiri, also a northern language (Northern Territory), 'cockatoo' is
_kakalyaya_.

Since Malays and other people from the Indonesian Islands used to have
contacts with the indigenous population of the Australian north coast for a
long time (probably preceding European arrivals), which is also the reason
why those people used boats and other items other Australians did not know,
I don't consider it impossible that _kaka tua_ was the Indonesian rendering
of the Gagadu people's name, thus _burung kakak tua_ *"Gagadu bird".

Just a wild guess ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================