LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.10.02 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Ze?s)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.09.26 (08) [E]

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Language changes
>
>Lowlanders,
>
>It seems to me that there is a trend in English, at least in American
>English varieties, toward avoiding the words "father" and "mother" and to
>use in their places "mom" and "dad", also more and more often "mom and dad"
>in place of "parents."
>
>This makes me want to ask if you have noticed similar trends in other
>varieties of English and in other Lowlands languages (e.g., "mother" ~>
>"mum", "father" ~> "dad" in other forms of English, and/or _mither_ ~>
>_mum_, _faither_ ~> _dad_ in Scots).  Outside the Lowlands area but within
>the Germanic group, I noticed that in Modern Icelandic _mamma_ and _pabbi_
>are often used where I would expect _mó°©²_ 'mother' and _fað©²Y 'father'
>respectively, similarly _mame_ and _tate_ in place of (rather serious and
>distant) _muter_ 'mother' and _foter_ 'father' respectively in Yiddish,
and,
>back in the Lowlands fold, oftentimes _ma_ and _pa_ where I would expect
>_vader_ and _moer_ respectively in Afrikaans.
>
>I wonder if under similar circumstances the old words for (i.e., the
>cognates of) 'mother' and 'father' (Old Frisian _moder_ and _fader_)
>eventually came to be replaced by _mem_ and _heit_ in Westerlauwer ("West")
>Frisian (similarly in other Frisian varieties?).
>
>I feel that in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) _Moder_ ['mO.Ud3] ~ _Mudder_
>['mUd3] ~ [mUr3] 'mother' and _Vadder_ ['fad3] ~ ['far3] 'father' still
have
>very strong positions, also as terms of address, and that _Mamma_ ['ma.ma]
>'mom' and _Pappa_ ['papa] ~ ['paba] 'dad' are not all that often heard, at
>least not in traditional speaker circles, may well have rubbed off from
>German, where they are still mostly used as terms of address/endearment and
>in talking with children or among ones own relatives.
>
>In Missingsch (i.e., German on Lowlands Saxon substrate) many people,
>especially males, refer to and in some families even address their fathers
>by means of _AldäY (= Standard German _Alter_ 'old guy'), thus something
>like '(my) old man'.  Some people, again mostly males, also use it to
>address friends (e.g., _Na, Aldä¿Y 'What's up, dude?'), thus, similar to
>_MackäY (= LS _Macker_).  I have also heard it used to denote 'husband'
>(e.g., _Oh ha, oh ha! Wenn das ihr Aldä ²auskricht!_ 'Boy, oh boy! Wait
till
>her hubby finds out!'), similarly _Alde_ for 'wife', sometimes '(steady)
>girlfriend'.  Outside of that, _AldäY and _Alde_, and also _Macker_, are
>likely to sound derogatory or hostile (_Kuck ma die Alde da!_ 'Look at that
>chick over there!', _Oi, Aldä¡ Was kucksu uns so bescheuä´ an?_ 'Hey, dude!
>What do you think you are look at (= at us)?', _Eh, komm ma mit raus, Mack
ä¡ >Denn gieps Schl䧥._ 'Eh, come on outside, dude! Then I'll beat you
up.').
>(These examples are in Hamburg Missingsch.)
>
>Any responses, information, corrections or additions would be appreciated.
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Moin Ron !
In our Eastern Friesland Platt we have several words to adress parents.
>mauder< and >fo´der< have the parallel words >mo´r< and >fo´r<. In a
more
familiar context we use >ma^m< and >pa^<. The general term is >ollen<
(parents) or >folk<. The last sometimes is used for the further family or
kinship, too. For father sometimes the term >oel< is used (ex.: mi:n oel is
up tuer = my father isn't at home / is walking around / is out for a beer
etc.). An old term for father is >ba"ep< or >baeaep< (~ae~ = ae-ligature)
but I cannot remember to have heard it any more since more than twenty
years and only a few speakers used it then.
The use of >ma^m< and >pa^< adressing ones parents is restricted to the
families and used to talk about them just with some very close friends.
Outside these contextes only the other words are in use with the exception
of >oel<.

Kumpelment
Holger

----------

From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.10.04 (02) [E]

>But, speaking about cats: we just had a houseguest from Senegal who told us
>that the word for "milk" in her native language, Wolof, is "miaou" (sorry,
I
>haven't seen the word written, but that's how it sounds). That certainly
>explains what my three cats keep trying to tell me!!
>
>Cheers,
>Gabriele Kahn
>
>Gabriele wrote:
>
>> But, speaking about cats: we just had a houseguest from Senegal who told
>us
>> that the word for "milk" in her native language, Wolof, is "miaou"
(sorry,
>I
>> haven't seen the word written, but that's how it sounds).
>
>Wolof _mew_ 'milk'
>
>('Cat' is _moos_.)
>
>Cheers!
>Reinhard/Ron

Hello Ron !
Is this Wolof word >mew< for milk an English loan (the ~w~ being a
substitute for the dark ~l~ resp. the ~lk~) ?
Regards
Holger

----------

From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.10.04 (03) [E]  cat names...  and bön

Hi,

Cat names.  We are owned by a cat too here in our house.  Cats have a
lot of bad names.
In Dutch kat, in Dalland dialect katte.
They have bad names like Dakhaas  , roof hare,    riooltijger    ,
gutter tiger,  let me think.. well it depends , if you are a bird
keeper, you got many more names, if you are a cat owner you call the cat
poes.
What ever you call them they listen very well, but they don't obey.

About bön   there is a word in dutch ..a part of a fishing boat is
called bun, or  in dialect bön   , the part on the bottom of the ship
where you keep live fish, it has holes, so that the water comes in it's
a compartment in the middle of the boat. Visbön, or visbun.  That has
probably connections with the word bodem than? Bottom, german boden?

Moi!

Wim.
[Wim Verdoold]

----------

From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: Kakatu, etc.; Loans in Austral. Aborig. ll

Several times now there have been some talk about
possible loans [from Dutch] in aborig. ll of
Australia.
I remember that Austral. scholars doing a lot of work
in North Australia were surprised to find Dutch
loanwords in aborig. ll.
Their conclusion: natives of the Indonesian archipel
always used to visit North Australia by boat.

My note: Long ago I made the conclusion that water
never is a borderline for language- /
geolect-influence; but mountain-ridges/chains are.

Source: The Aboriginal Australian in North Eastern
Arnhem Land
        Author: Don Williams
Publisher: The Curriculum Development Centre,
Canberra, Australia

[Please, no misunderstanding: I have to brush up my
'North Eastern Arnhem Aboriginialian' because I never
met such a native in pub or supermarket in my rural
villagetown.]

vr.gr. Theo Homan

=================================
REFERRING TO:

From: Ole Stig Andersen <osa at olestig.dk>
Subject: Kakatoe-Kakadu

Hi Ron-of Many-Languages

Heartened by the latest exchanges about Wolof, I dare
to ask again a
question that may have got lost in the latest week or
so's mail:

According to my Oxford Etymological the word
_cockatoo_ comes from
Malay
_kakatua_ (mening "big parrot"), the English rendering
possibly
influenced
by another bird's name, the cock.

In Danish the word is _kakadu_, contaminated by
another bird, the dove,
in
Danish "due". It is derived from Dutch _kaketoe_, the
books say.

Is there any possible connection to the Australian
_Kakadu_, a name for
both
a (recently deceased) language, a tribe/people/nation
and a National
Park
where the bird in question lives?(also endangered, I
believe). It is
also
spelled Gagadju and Gagudju and lies in the Northern
Territory where I
think
Dutchmen came by in the 16th century, leaving place
names like Arnhem
Land
behind.

Or is Danish Kakadu and Australian Kakadu just a
coincidence, like the
Dyirbal (another recently deceased Australian lg) word
for "dog" is
said to
be - "dog"!

Ole Stig Andersen

=====
Theo Homan - Verkopende Teksten
050 571 81 38
freelance copywriting
direct marketing ideeen & concepten
folders, catalogi, brochures, print ads
verkopende brieven
www.theohoman.8m.com


----------

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Lexicon

Beste liëglanners,


Let's cast a ray of light on this "beun(haas)" matter...this is what Jan de
Vries thinks about it :

> BEUN znw. v. 'losse planken boven de vloer', ook "viskaar" (met de bijvorm
'bun'), bij Kiliaen :
> "boene", "buene" 'tabulata' en "bonne", "bunne" 'coassatio, tabulatum et
fori navium', vgl; mnd.
> "bone, böne" m.v. 'planken stelling, zoldering, zolder, verdieping',
"bune" v. 'staketsel aan een
> oever' (vgl. in duitse zeemanstaal "bünn" 'beun in een schip'; ook
oostfri. "bünne"), mnd. bune, mhd. > büne, bün (nhd. bühne) 'estrade,
zoldering'. Men zal wel van 'dunne plank, sliet' moeten uitgaan, vgl. > het
woord "buna" 'droge stengel' in de plantnaam zw. "gråböna", de. dial.
"graabone" (AEW 63 onder > búa 2). Daarnaast staan nnoorw. "bunke", nde.
"bynke" 'bijvoet' en nzw. dial. "bunke" 'rietsoort'.
> Verder zijn te vergelijken on. "buna" als bijnaam voorkomend = nijsl.
"buna" 'bot van een os',
> nnoorw. "buna" 'been, pijp', ozw. "buulogger" 'voorbout van een
slachtdier', nde. "bonneben"
> 'scheenbeen van een slachtdier'. Deze woorden zijn moeilijk te verklaren,
maar zullen wel met de
> groep van "bonk" samenhangen.
>     FW 57 noemt nog als zwakke mogelijkheden verbinding met de wt. *bhen
'slaan', waarvoor zie :     >     "baan" en nog zwakker verbinding met het
woord "ben" in de zin van vlechtwerk.

> BEUNHAAS znw. m. sedert de 17de eeuw < nd. bön(e)hase, dat eig.
'zolderhaas' betekent, een
> spotnaam voor 'kat', dan 'arbeider die in het geheim op zolder werkt, een
knoeier in zijn vak' : in
> Salzburg heet de niet bij een gilde aangesloten timmerman "Dachhase" (eig.
'kat') en "Zaunhase" (eig. > 'egel') elders "balkhase" (westf. oostfri.),
vgl. gron. "balkhoas", fri. "bolkhazze". In de 14de eeuw is
> het woord in Duitsland een PN, sedert 1568 komt het voor in de betekenis
van 'buiten het gilde
> werkende kleermaker'' (vgl. hd. "böhnhase").

Duden's Herkunftswörterbuch says this :

> BÜHNE w: Die Herkunft von mhd. büne "Bretterbühne, Zimmerdecke", mnd. böne
"bretterne
> Erhöhung, Empore, Zimmerdecke", niederl. beun "bretterne Erhöhung,
Bretterdiele, Steg; Decke" ist
> nicht sicher geklärt. Vielleicht hängt das auf das dt. und niederl.
Sprachgebiet beschränkte Wort mit
> der Sippe von  ? Boden zusammen. Das aus 'Schaubühne' verkürzte Wort
'Bühne' wird im 18. Jh. auf > das Podium des Schauspielers eingeschränkt und
alsbald auch übertragen für "Theater" gebraucht.

As I was quoting them, I don't want to translate their words.

Slightly off the record, the bottom of an object happens to be called
"boeëm" in Brabantish, "bodem" (D) ~ "fundus" (Latin) ~ "budhnas" (Old
Indian), and the Dutch naval term "bodem" became French "bodine".

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Holger,

> Is this Wolof word >mew< for milk an English loan (the ~w~ being a
> substitute for the dark ~l~ resp. the ~lk~) ?

I hardly think so, considering that traditionally any "Western" influences
on the languages of Senegal etc. was French, not English.

Luc, Wim, Lowlanders,

Most Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects have _Bodden_ ~ _Botten_
~ _Boddem_ for 'bottom'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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