LL-L "Language survival" 2002.10.16 (06) [E]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 16.OCT.2002 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Marco Evenhuis <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.16 (01) [E]

Thomas Byro wrote:

> The word OK originated in one of the early 19th century American
> presidential elections.  I think it was that between Harrison and Tyler.
> Anyway, one of them was described in the election propaganda as being a
> rough frontiersman, a native of the upstate village of Old Kinderhook,
which
> was a frontier village in his youth.  Actually he was no such thing, but
was
> a member of the Dutch patroon class of upstate New York.  Anyway, during
the
> course of the election he was decribed as being "Old Kinderhook."  As the
> election progressed further he was described as simply "he is OK."

Thomas writes about the 'Dutch patroon class'
and Old Kinderhook. Maybe it's nice to know
for people interested in Dutch language and
culture in the eastern states of the USA that an
archaic form of Dutch (Jersey Dutch, Albany
Dutch, Mohawk Dutch or Schoharie Dutch;
there might have been differences between these
varieties) was still spoken there well into the
19th century in northern New Jersey and upstate
New York, including Kinderhook. That's over
250 years after the Dutch first settled on the
banks of the Hudson river and 200 years after
the English took over the Dutch colony of
New Netherland there.
In fact, the Jersey Dutch language had not yet
completely died out in the 1930s and 40s! On
a few genealogical sites, I found some remarks,
of which the following (about a Rachel Hoppers
who died in 1937, aged 73 - see
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~reetrees/line.html
for details):

<quote>
"James and his wife Rachel were the last of this
family of Hoppers to be able to communicate
with each other in "Jersey Dutch." Born two
hundred years after their Dutch ancestors had
emigrated, they were the last generation to be
able to converse in a language that had been
perpetuated by the closeness of the Bergen
Rockland community. Although the language
had changed over the years, according to his
dau. Ruth, James was still able to communi-
cate with workers he hired who were natives
of Holland".
</>

Even more striking is the story of the Ramapo
Mountain People (or "Jackson Whites"). They
are a people of mixed Black, Dutch, Indian (and
maybe a few others). Several sources say that
some of them still speak Jersey Dutch. An
interesting site about this subject can be found
on
http://www.netstrider.com/documents/whites/
A few quotes:

<quote>
That's how I first came to know who the
Jackson Whites were - from Willie G. Mann,
Jr., my first and best friend. Junior told me
stories about these shy, gentle, reclusive
mountain people. They kept mostly to them-
selves. A lot of the townspeople in the valleys
below their homes called them names because
they were afraid of them or thought themselves
better. Among Junior's many cousins, some
were albino. Some had extra fingers or toes.
Some had webbed fingers or toes. Some were
a bit slow-witted. Some knew Indian medicine.
 Some spoke proudly of their Tuscarora or Hes-
sian or Dutch blood. Some spoke "Jersey Dutch,"
an old dialect that the newer valley people couldn't
understand. Some people said they came from
runaway slaves or black whores. Some said they
came from traitors and turncoats. Some people
 called them "Jacks." Others called them "Bockies."
It really didn't matter. They were all wrong anyway
</>

If there's anyone out there who knows more
about this subject (the Dutch language in and
around the area once known as New Nether-
land), please let me know!

Regards,

Marco

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