LL-L "Categories" 2002.09.18 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.09.15 (05) [E]

Ron, Low- and Leeglanners,

some days ago You tought me:

> *All* diminutive derivations of nouns--irrespective of the gender of the
> original nouns--have neuter gender in Lowlands Saxon (Low German), German
> and Dutch (and I suppose in other Continental Lowlands varieties as well).

and, of course, You are absolutely right!

But- could there be sweet *s* exceptions of the rule? Or is it just wrong to
talk this way (but LS people do!)?

In our LS-dialect we use to say "de (male) Bonscher", (UG) "der (and: "das")
Bonbon", (LS) "geev mi dennen Bonscher" (UG) "Gib mir den (das) Bonbon", (E)
"give the bonbon to me". The French origin is male, but I suppose the LS
"Bonscher" to be a diminutive derivation of it?!

The other word is the (East-)Frisian "Wicht", (UG) "Mädchen", (E) "girl". I
have forgotten-is it used with female or neuter pronoun?

Regards

Fiete.

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From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.09.15 (05) [E]

"Perhaps" (??) I found a reason:

> > In our LS-dialect we use to say "de (male) Bonscher", (UG) "der (and:
> "das")
> > Bonbon", (LS) "geev mi dennen Bonscher" (UG) "Gib mir den (das) Bonbon",
> (E)
> > "give the bonbon to me". The French origin is male, but I suppose the LS
> > "Bonscher" to be a diminutive derivation of it?!

"Bonscher" (sometimes, also: "Bonsche") is ending in "-er", mostly these
 words are male in German languages. I guess the "Bonsche" to be the origin,
 shifting to "Bonscher" (like the french origin)  and this way getting the
male pronoun.

Fiete

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From: R. F. Hahn <admin at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Categories

Fiete,

I believe you are on the right track with your answer to your own question.
It's a matter of "reanalysis".

In most cases, the speaker is aware that a word is a diminutive derivation.
In this particular case ('candy', 'sweet') he/she is not, firstly because
the origin (French _bonbon_ 'candy', 'sweet') is obscured (i.e., no one
knows what a *_Bon_ is), and secondly the diminutive suffix _-tje_ [tCe] ~
[tSe] -- which is falling into disuse -- has been "destorted" to _-tsche_ ~
_-tscher_ ~ _-tschie_.  (In Hamburg Lowlands Saxon (Low German) and
Missingsch many people say _Bontsche_ or _Bontschie_ for 'candy', 'sweet'
[countable noun].)  So, the word comes to be reanalyzed as a single
morpheme, and masculine gender assignment seems most likely.

> The other word is the (East-)Frisian "Wicht", (UG) "Mädchen", (E) "girl".
I
> have forgotten-is it used with female or neuter pronoun?

It is neuter (_dat_), because originally the noun did not denote a female
but a "little creature" (cf. English _wight_ < _wiht_, Dutch neuter: _het
wicht_, but German  masculine: _der Wicht_).

I'm afraid there is no *real* exception to the rule.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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