LL-L "Etymology" 2003.04.02 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 02.APR.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.04.01 (01) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
> What I really wanted to talk about, actually ask about, is the LS word
> _mang_ (~ _mank_ [ma.Nk]) 'among'. People who make up Lowlands Saxon
> on the
> basis of German will often say _ünner_ 'under' instead, because German
> _unter_ 'under' also means 'among', or they will say _twüschen_,
> because
> German _zwischen_ means both 'between' and 'among'; e.g.,
> As you can probably tell, LS _mang_ seems to be related to English
> "among"
> and Scots _amang_ (< _emong_ ~ _imong_ < _ymong_ < _onmang_ < Old
> English
> _on gemang_ "in a crowd/throng").
>
> I believe that these words are related to umlauted forms (e = ä < a)
> such as
> German _Menge_ 'crowd', 'amount', 'number (of)', _Menggut_ 'mixture (of
> things)', _vermengen_ 'to mix', 'to blend', LS _Menggood_ ~ _Mengels_ ~
> _Mengsel_ ~ _Mengelmoos_ 'mixture (of things)', 'blend', _(ver)mengen_
> ~
> _mengeleren_ 'to mix', 'to blend', Dutch _(ver)mengen_ 'to mix', 'to
> blend',
> _mengsel_ ~ _mengelmoes_ 'mixture', 'blend' (same of similar forms in
> Afrikaans), Scots _ming_ 'mixture', 'blend', 'mix-up', 'confusion', and
> English "to mingle".
>
> My question (besides if we can elaborate on the etymology) is if
> cognates of
> LS _mang_, English "among" and Scots _amang_ exist in other Lowlands
> language varieties.
>
> As far as I can tell, Dutch and Afrikaans use _tussen_and Westerlauwer
> Frisian _tusken_ for 'among' , meaning also 'between'.
>
> Might this _mang_/"among"/_amang_ thing be a Saxon feature?

Hi Ron,
In West-Flemish we don't know the word "mang"
We use "tusschen / tuss'n / tusken",
and also "onder (onger) mekaar/malkander".
But we know...
mengelen/ mingelen/ ming' /meng'  (vermengelen/ ...)/ mix'n (D: mengen)
mingelmoes (D: mengelmoes)
mingelinge (D: mengeling)
mengelsoen / mingelsoen (D: een mengeling van graansoorten)
mjinigte (D: menigte)

Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject: "Etymology"

> Dear Lowlanders,
> Regarding "among", meaning 'in the crowd', I find that the
> PGmc abstract noun *manag-i:n yielded OE 'menigu', OFris. 'menie', and OS
> 'menigi:' NHG 'Menge").
>
> This is based on the PGmc adjective stem *maniga-,
> meaning 'many', which itself gave OE 'manig', OFris 'monich', OS 'manag'
> (NHG mancher).
>
> I got that from Bammesberger's book on the Germanic noun.
>
> I was dubious about 'mingle' being related, but I found that it is so.  ME
> 'menglen', 'to mingle', is the frequentative of OE 'mengan', 'to mix'.
> This is a nasal infix present, apparently.  It is derived, according to
> Pokorny, to PIE verbal root *mag-, 'knead, fashion, fit'.  This root also
> gives us English 'make', from OE 'macian'.
>
> Thanks for giving me some fun stuff to look up!
>
> Allison Turner-Hansen

Hello Allison and all !
In EFLS we have _menniğ_ (many, much), _menniğäien_ (one of many, many a
one), related to German _manch_, _manch ein/e/r_, _manch/e/r_ (many a one,
some). I don't know whether there is a relationship to _mank_ or to German
_Menge_ (quantity, amount, crowd) [the last then should better be written
_Mänge_!?] but of course this seems quite possible.
Greetings
Holger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Holger (above):

> In EFLS we have _menniğ_ (many, much), _menniğäien_ (one of many, many
> a one), related to German _manch_, _manch ein/e/r_, _manch/e/r_ (many a
> one, some).

In other North Saxon dialects also _männi(g) ~ menni(g)_ ['mE.nI(C)] for
'some', related to German _manch(e(r/s))_, and also _männigeen ~ mennigeen_
['mE.nIC,?E.In] ("many one") 'many (of them)', 'some (people)', related to
German _manchein(e(r/s))_.  Compare the Dutch cognates _menig(e)_ and
_menigeen_ respectively, also Scots _monie_ and _monie a ane_ ("many a one")
respectively.

Kumpelmenten/Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.:
Boa vinda à pessoa que subscreveu de Florianopolis (Santa Catarina, Brasil)
apenas agora!
Welcome to the person who just now subscribed from Florianopolis (Santa
Catarina, Brazil)!

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