LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.08.27 (01) [E/Swedish]

Wed Aug 27 15:14:23 UTC 2003

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From: Peter J. Wright <peterjwright at earthlink.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.08.26 (01) [E]

Gary Taylor wrote:

"Mike asked about Gutamål. It's not actually derived
from Old Gothic, but rather Old Gutnish - The names
are all very similar and derive from the same source
which is why it gets confusing, in much the same way
as we have places like Slovenia and Slovakia etc.
Gothic dialects did in fact die out about 400 years
ago in Crimea. Gutamål is a North Germanic
dialect/language which differs from Swedish (and
Danish) in that it didn't undergo monophthongisation
among other things. It's also got a whole series of
new diphthongs as well, unique to the area."

My response:

Well put, Gary.  The following is an excerpt from Bengt Pamp's "Svenska
Dialekter", which for many is something like the Bible is to Christians  ;)
:

“Dialekten skilde sig tidigt från fastlandsmålen.  Öns fornspråk,
forngutniskan, avviker så från den vanliga fornsvenskan – där det
naturligtvis i och för sig fanns åtskilliga dialektskillnader – att man
ibland räknar de båda varianterna som systerspråk, eller om man så vill
jämnställda systerdialekter.”

Translation:

“The dialect showed an early split from the languages spoken on the
mainland.  The island’s ancient tongue, Old Gutnish, differs so markedly
from standard Old Swedish – which per se was comprised of numerous different
dialects – that one can sometimes consider the two to be sister languages,
or indeed, sister dialects of similar stature.”

Kind regards,
Peter Wright
The Wright Translation
NY, NY

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From: Daniel Ryan Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Subject: Language Varieties [E]

Dear all,

It was very interesting to have interest spraked for the Gutnish
language/dialect.

It is quite clear that it does not derive from an East Germanic Gothgic
variety, but is Scandinavian in origine. However 19th century academia
often used Gothic or Old Gothic as the general term for Germanic
languages, at least in the English speaking area and older publications.
Maybe the confusion concerning thze terminology arises here.

About Crmean Gothic. I remember reading an article about Crimean Gothic
some years ago (I must see if I can find it), analysing the transmitted
vocabulary and the short bit of verse and the few phrases, i.e. all
extant material. This article comes to the conclusion that Crimean
Gothic had undgone early changes that point towards the West Germanic
languages rather than East Germanic. And that is was definately not a
descendent from Wulfila-Gothic.

This reopens the great question about inter-Germanic ethnicity and the
fluctuating nature of terminology. It seems that a variety of Germanic
speaking tribes moved east during the "Völkerwanderungszeit" who were
under the overlordship of the Goths. Maybe the greater number of these
were not even Gothic speaking. It is apparent that Crimean Gothic
incorporated features from East Germanic, but was closer to West
Germanic in many phonological developmnt. To me this seems like a
"typical" colonial dialect in which speakers from various dialect areas
level their dialects in the following generation.

Dan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

To steer back in the direction of the Lowlands (hint, hint) -- not
withstanding Dan's interesting notes about classification (above) -- let me
ask about Lowlands connections with Gothlandic (which, as far as I am aware,
is the more accepted English name for what in Swedish is _Gotländska_ and in
the language itself is _Gutniska_).  Are there any clearly direct
connections with Lowlands Saxon (Low German), or Dutch, or are such
influences indistinguishable from those that reached Gothlandic via Swedish,
Scanian (_Skånska_) or Danish in the wake of Hanseatic trade with what is
now Sweden?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: For those of you who wish to pursue this further, albeit all in
Swedish:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2407/SCANUNG2.html
http://gutnisku.imess.net/
http://gutnisku.imess.net/egenheter.htm
http://www.gutamal.org/htmlgraj/gutniska.htm
http://www.bossecarlgren.com/htmlfiles/gutamal/gutetext3.htm
http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland.html
http://home.swipnet.se/gutniska/newpage10.htm

Old Gothlandic texts with Swedish translations:
http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/parla_/lagh/default.htm
http://www.guteinfo.com/special/103.htm

And Hanseatic links with Gothland described in Swedish and German:
http://www.gotlandshistoria.com/historia/hansans_framv.htm
http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/parla_/hansebund/default.htm

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