LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.12.08 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: jmaguire at pie.xtec.es <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.12.07 (02) [E]

Hello All,

Because of dire warning to get back to the Lallands, I'll like
to add that there is a European movement to promote
interlanguage comprehension. They have alredy published a book
on Romance languages called EuroComRom. The Germanic languages
have a website: http://www.eurocom-frankfurt.de/englisch.htm
I think the Lallands languages should be part of this movement

Regards,

Tom

> >Personally, I believe that *all* languages *are* ultimately
related to each
> >other, namely that human language began very early, before
exodus from
> >Mother Africa.
> >
> >I say, "Back to the Lowlands!"

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Delectables

Tom (above):

> Because of dire warning to get back to the Lallands ...

Oh, come on!  It wasn't actually "dire," was it?  ;)

Brian Holton wrote (under "Holidays" earlier today):

> I have always thought of Northumbrian as a dialect of Scots, rather than a
> dialect of English, bythe way. thought the vowel systems are different,
many
> lexical items are shared. and I have always assumed their comon ancestor
to
> be the northern form of Old English. the territory was part of the kingdom
> of Northumbria, which included modern SE Scotland, until (if I remember
> rightly) the current borderline along the River Tweed was established by
the
> Treaty of Carham in 1040.

I confess I often wonder about this, didn't want to force the issue, hoping
that list members would sometime slug it out between them without being
prompted.

So, how do folks see the status of *Modern* Northumbrian?  Is it ...

(1) a dialect group of English,
(2) a dialect group of Scots, or
(3) a separate, though overlapping or transitional, language?

Considering only its origin, I would join Brian in assuming that
Northumbrian is a part of Scots, since both Northumbrian and Scots basically
originated from Old Northumbrian.  However, (most of?) Northumbria having
belonged to England for a long time, being geographically closer to English
and thus having been influenced by English more intensively and
consistently, I suppose it has been Anglicized to an even greater degree
than has Scots.  But the same could be said of Germanization and
Neerlandicization respectively with regard to Lowlands Saxon, yet there is
reason to continue regarding it as one separate language.

How do Northumbrians and Scots generally see the matter?

Cannot similar things be said about Northumbrian culture?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: It would be great if we had a Northumbrian version of our welcoming
page. and some other language samples as well.

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