LL-L "Perceptions" 2003.02.06 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Ian James Parsley <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Chris,

Clearly I'm sympathetic to what you say about apparent
ignorance of 'Scottish' culture. However, I'm going to
play the devil's advocate.

I've lost count of the number of times I've met Scots
who insist on being labelled 'Scottish' and telling
everyone around them that that is what they are - yet
then see fit to label me 'Irish'! I'm not, I'm
*Northern* Irish! That is potentially just as
offensive and ignorant.

However, I don't make a big issue of it. The reality
is that most people who say 'Scotch' or label you
'British' or, worse, 'English' really don't care!
Likewise if I were to insist on being 'Northern Irish'
most people simply wouldn't care. (Although
interestingly I've found that German speakers tend to
be very clear on the distinction, so in that case I do
'correct' them to 'Nordire', and they seem to
appreciate it.)

The same applies to many Western Europeans who head
over to the USA and comment on how ignorant Americans
seem to be - stories of them not knowing even where
'England' is are common. However, these same people
will also get confused between China and Japan, or
Ukraine and Armenia, or Australia and New Zealand (or
even South Africa), and will refer to Barcelona as
'typically Spanish' etc etc etc.

Clearly this list is largely about cultural diversity,
and encouraging knowledge of regional cultures,
traditions and languages. However, it is important not
to go over the top, and even more important not to be
hypocritical about it. You learn over time when it
really matters and when it's, well, just not worth it!

Kind regards,
-----------------------
Ian James Parsley
Co Down, *Northern* Ireland (!)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Perceptions

Ian,

I basically agree with what you wrote above, and I appreciate and reiterate
the fact that you were playing devil's advocate.

Yes, there are battles that are not worth fighting.  However, in part in
defense of Chris' point, perhaps one ought to aim at something in between.
If we don't correct people and don't insist on us or our cultures or
languages being referred to "correctly," or at least in a way in which we
feel comfortable, then things would never change.  Bear in mind that
language influences perception, which means that terminology ("labeling")
does indeed play an important role in the way ethnic groups and their
languages and cultures are perceived.

On the other hand, not a lot of positive results could be expected if we
aggressively rammed our terminologies down people's throats.  I "educate"
everyone who asks me, and sometimes I correct people as gently as possible
even if they do not ask to be educated.  Sometimes it helps to have a
one-liner ready to go, such as "'Scotch' is a type of whiskey" (even though
Chris goes as far as rejecting even that), or, as a linguistics professor of
mine used to say when anyone pronounced "Celtic" with an "s" sound, "The
Celtics are an American football team."  At least this is something that
does stick in most cases, whereas long-winded "lectures" or angry tirades
don't, meet with a "Yeah, whatever" knee-jerk attitude.

Some common terminology is so blatantly wrong and is so offensive to many
that it simply must be corrected, such as referring to a person from
Scotland as "English," to an ethnically non-Russian person from Uzbekistan
or Georgia as "Russian," or to any Muslim as "Arab."  You simply cannot let
people get away with that sort of thing.  I will correct them in those cases
and explain that what they said is at least potentially offensive or at
least irksome (implying that they'd better stop it).

The problem is that there are differences in what people are prepared to
tolerate.  As you can see, Chris is quite sensitive about "Scotch," and who
am I to judge him on that?  Theo reported on people in Northern Germany not
caring what you call them, and I could counter that this is because their
insistence and their sense of separateness has been worn down over centuries
of Germanization, resulting in most people not caring about any of this and
even rejecting their cultural and linguistic heritage.  This is what you get
if you no longer care, if you have have surrendered.

One of our subscribers, a Basque, took exception to me listing his place
under Spain when I reported about new subscribers.  I assured him that I
would never call him a Spaniard, but it is a fact that he is a Spanish
citizen and that his part of the Basque region happens to be officially
under Spanish rule, not officially a separate country.  This in itself is
totally separate from what my private opinion about Basque aspirations is.

So these are gray areas where things get a little tricky and minds do not
necessarily meet.  In those cases, a measure of appreciation, respect and
forebearance is required on all sides.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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