LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.02.08 (06) [E]

Sat Feb 8 22:43:29 UTC 2003

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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2003.02.07 (06) [D/E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Resources
> Thanks for the interesting resource tip (above), Roger.
> Do you know if Ladino (a.k.a. Judezmo, "Judeo-Spanish") is still used in
Belgium?  It is not, according to the Ethnologue
(http://www.ethnologue.com/), but the Ethnologue also does not list Yiddish
under "Belgium," and we do know it is spoken in Belgium, mostly in Antwerp.
> If Ladino is not used, what is the predominant home language of the
Sephardic community?  Dutch?

That is a difficult one, just because the answer is not "visible".
What I'm trying to say is:

The Asjkenazi live mainly in Antwerp in a very concentrated area.
Considering the aspect (beard, boys with long hair turned around the ear,
long coats, black hats (already worn by kids) and big "cilindrical disc" fur
hats, they define themself as a closed group. So they are quite easy to
"see". The more, I know at least of 3 book shops in Antwerp with Jiddish
books (most of them printed in New York though; the Antwerp community is
small, but very visible since they live in a concentrated area), etc. etc.
School language is primarely Dutch, otherwise they would not be subsidized.
The Belgian system though allows subsidized "free" schools. most of them are
Roman Catholic. In Antwerp there are quite some Jewish schools (with quite
some presence of Hebrew and Jiddish in the programs). I don't find
statistics but if I remember well about 50% of the Jewish kids go to a
Jewish school, the other half go to the official network (schools of the
region, province or town).

The Sefardi group in Antwerp is a small group, and as far as I'm aware off,
very much integrated, so virtually invisible. To the external world they are
undistinguishable Antwerpians (speaking Dutch, or the Antwerp "metropolitan"
dialect, or something between).
The Jewish population in Brussel is apparently even larger than the Antwerp
one. But they are integrated and "invisible". Since Brussels became
(unfortunately) mainly French-speaking, I guess most of them speak French.
Jewish services on TV are in Dutch (with prayers in Hebrew) when sent from
Antwerp, and as far as I'm aware off, virtually almost allways in French
when sent from Brussels.

To my appreciation, these TV services, considering that people are wearing
normal clothes, and the incidental presence of non Jew politicians at
commemorative services, are generally not taken in the synagogues of the
orthodox Asjkenazi group.

"I personally think" the Sefardis are quite whealty on the average, "I
think" the Asjkenazis may be rather poor on the average. I remember talking
with some of them in the street some time ago, but they had to interrupt,
since an other called them for a prayer. When one wants to pray for
something, one needs to find 9 others, since they allways have to be 10 (at
least) apparently. I guess this is just one of many rules, and eventually
incompatible with business live, easely absorbing 10-12 hrs/day for many of
us.

So coming to your question: I could eventually write stories about Antwerp
Asjkenazi; the Sefardi though are not "visible" (not distinguishable from
other Belgians) , and whatever exotic language they eventually talk at home,
they will not attract attention in social live.

Btw The Asjkenazi, I talked with, do not define their form of Jiddish as
Polish or Lithanianian Jiddish or whatsoever Jiddish. In "Antwerp Dutch"
they call it "Joods" and they do not care about a little bit of variety in
their "Joods".

Regards,

Roger

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

Thanks for the info (above), Roger.

> Btw The Asjkenazi, I talked with, do not define their form of Jiddish as
> Polish or Lithanianian Jiddish or whatsoever Jiddish. In "Antwerp Dutch"
> they call it "Joods" and they do not care about a little bit of variety in
> their "Joods".

This does not surprise me terribly, given that the name "Yiddish" (_yidish_
~ _idish_) means the same as _Joods_, i.e., 'Jewish'.  Apparently it is a
shortened form of _yidish daytsh_ "Jewish German," also frequently
abbreviated as _daytsh_ until World War II, and Yiddish-speaking East
European Jewish men whose name would be addressed by other Yiddish speakers
as _reb daytsh_ "Mr./Master German."

> So coming to your question: I could eventually write stories about Antwerp
> Asjkenazi; the Sefardi though are not "visible" (not distinguishable from
> other Belgians) , and whatever exotic language they eventually talk at
home,
> they will not attract attention in social live.

It would surprise me to find out that they, the Sephardim of the Netherlands
and those that lived in German coastal cities like Hamburg until WW II still
spoke Ladino.  For one thing, their communities were and are relatively
small.  Secondly, Ladino really blossomed around the Mediterranean Sea,
especially in North Africa, Turkey and Greece, where it acquired its very
special, "charming" characteristics (just as the surviving varieties of
Yiddish acquired much of their "charm" in Eastern Europe).  However, I have
not yet given up my search for Jewish-specific Lowlands-specific language
varieties, and it never hurts to ask.

I am not sure if Sephardim settled on the British Isles during or soon after
the Inquisition.  I find it somewhat doubtful, no matter how desperate they
were , given that, aside from the omnipresent sort of Antisemitism there had
been instituionalized Antisemitism at least in England not long before and
probably still around that time, for instance the organized burning of Jews
in York and the government-directed expulsion and ban of Jews from England.
The trading ports of the Continental Lowlands coast, on the other hand, were
known for their relative tolerance and secularism, tolerance as long as
there was no negative impact on their preoccupation with accumulation of
wealth.  This is how what are now the western suburbs (especially Altona) of
Hamburg became relatively secure for Jews through strength of number and
later served as occasional safe havens when periodic anti-Jewish policies
and progrom-like skirmishes were carried out in Hamburg, Stade and other
towns of the Lower Elbe region.

In the case of Sephardim of the Continental Lowlands coast, there is another
enticing "detail," namely that almost all of their ancestors fled from the
Iberian Inquisition not from Spain but from Portugal, that, if their forms
of Ladino survived, they would be based on Portuguese of the late Middle
Ages rather than on Spanish (Castilian) of that era, while, as I understand,
their relatives that fled to Mediterranean regions came to be absorbed into
the Spanish-derived Ladino-speaking communities.  However, if the Sephardim
of coastal Belgium, the Netherlands and Northern Germany lost their
ancestral language (which I assume to be the case), it is quite likely that
this lost language left traces in the varieties of Dutch/Flemish, Lowlands
Saxon (Low German) and German they speak/spoke within their own circles if
they remained loyal to their religion and traditions.  At the very least, I
would expect a fair portion of their Hebrew- and Aramaic-based terminology
(mostly pertaining to religion, philosophy and community-specific
traditions) to have survived and to be pronounced in the Sephardic way
(which strongly influenced the pronunciation of Modern Hebrew), that is a
lot different from the pronunciation of such terminology in Yiddish.  Also,
I would expect songs and stories to have survived, besides liturgical chants
whose tunes are very different from East European Jewish tunes and are
strongly Northwest-African-influenced (due to influences acquired during the
"Moorish" [Moroccan & Mauretanian] rule of Spain, Portugal and parts of
Southern France).

Ladino has survived in the Americas but at least in North America is
declining in strength, in part due to Ashkenazi predominance.

Any further information, especially pertaining to language (with an emphasis
on a Lowlands connection), would be warmly welcomed.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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