LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.26 (12) [E]

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From: Ian James Parsley <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Ed,

In Criostoir's defence (surely not!), actually there
is a 'rule' behind the nominative use of 'me and my
wife' versus 'me' alone in many non-standard English
dialects. The 'rule' appears to be that the subjective
pronominal form ('I', 'he', 'we' etc) is used *only if
it stands alone as the subject*. Otherwise the
objective form is used (even 'me and him' etc). This
'rule' is applied almost without exception in Scots.

I would agree that 'my wife and me' (as opposed to 'me
and my wife') sounds a little odd, but that may be
simply because I'm allowing my Scots (where, certainly
in Ulster, you would hear nothing but 'me an the
guidwife' in that order) to interfere.

Of course, that is not to say I disagree with you, Ed.
Trying to tread carefully, I have to say that if I
submitted a text to an editor and it came back with
_judgment_ 'corrected' but _my wife and me_ as a
nominative left unchallenged I would be slightly
miffed! <covers ears...>

Best wishes,

=====
------------------
Ian James Parsley
www.ianjamesparsley.net
+44 (0)77 2095 1736
JOY - "Jesus, Others, You"

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.26 (10) [E]


Ed,

I agree that _mi waaif en mie_ might sound a little odd to outsiders, but
it's one of those aspects of Nottingham English that I can't readily
explain. The converse _*mi waaif en aij_ is analysable as Nottingham English
but sounds alien, unreal, affected. Similarly, I would never say, _*mi waaif
en misen_ (my wife and myself) as that also sounds wrong, strange, peculiar.

Interestingly, the construction _*mi waaif en aij went daan dhe theatre_
isn't likely in Nottingham English. That's standard English in a Nottingham
accent. One would say instead _mi waaif en mie wo daan dhe theatre_ (my wife
and me were down the theatre) or, more probably, the person's name and _en
mie wo daan the theatre_. In fact, in Nottingham English we don't use _went_
or _came_ much at all. The NE equivalent construction for standard English
_John just came_ is _John wo jusd ier_ (John were just here). Where it means
_John has just arrived_ it becomes simply _Johnz ier_ (John's here).
Likewise phrases such as _John went to school there_ have the equivalent
_John wor at skuuwl dheer_ (John were at school there), although _John went
dheer_ (John went there) is also perfectly acceptable.

Go raibh maith agat

Criostóir.


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