LL-L "Expressions" 2003.01.02 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
                  V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleemin.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Expressions" 2002.12.31 (09) [E]

> From: John M. Tait <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Expressions" 2002.12.31 (09) [E]
>
> Colin wrote:
> >
> >Personally, I'd see it as appropriate to invite someone _ben_ anywhere
> >I was the host, in some way or other. The most obvious example is into
> >ones own home, but I don't see it as being restricted to that. If I
> >had the role of host, greeting people arriving somewhere for some form
> >of hospitality, I'd feel that "come awa ben" was a natural thing to
> >say to them. Still, I agree that it might not be right for every
> >social occasion.
>
> I think there's a degree of decreasing literalism here. When I was young
in
> Shetland, 'ben' still had the literal meaning of the living end of a
house.
> When I moved to North East Scotland, I was surprised to hear it used more
> generally - even outdoors, as in 'ben thare' meaning simply 'over there.'
> When you consider that the phrase 'come awa ben inti the boady o the kirk'
> is used when there is no church in sight, I think we can say that such
> phrases can be used fairly generally.

Just to record the usage in my area (East Lothian), "ben" is used in the
phrase "ben the hoose" to mean "deeper" into the house (ie nearer the
room with the hearth), but is more typically generalised to mean "into
another room", eg "it's ben the scullery" will mean "it's through in the
scullery". I've never heard it to indicate a physical place out of doors,
but it can be used metaphorically - I'd suggest that a phrase like "'come
awa ben inti the boady o the kirk" is a metaphorical usage. Another
metaphorical usage I'm familiar with in practice is "gey faur ben", meaning
"intimate", eg to be "gey faur ben wi a body" means to be quite intimate
with them or to be a confidant.

Luc Vanbrabant wrote:

> I did read the a lot of your interesting subjects about Scots. The
> sentence "come away ben" did slip out of my memory. With the last
> answer of Ron i immediately recognised some familiarity with V:
> First of all, come (V Kom) and ben (V Binn') are pronounced in just the
> same way. Only the spelling differs.

Not quite in the same way as in Scots, though? "Come ben" would
be [kVm bE:n] in Scots.

> There is also a proverb that says:
> -Alleêne zitt'n, lijk de schouwe tegen de weeg (E to sit alone like the
> mantelpiece against the wall)= to sit in a room against a wall where
> normaly nobody sits because you sit all on your one or because this
> place is not suitable.

The Scots word for a person described in English as a "wallflower" is
"whistlebinkie", ie it's someone who sits alone on the "bink" (kitchen
dresser or bench) and whistles to himself.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Expressions

It seems to me that Scots _ben_, Lowlands Saxon (Low German) _binnen_,
Flemish _ben_, Dutch _binnen_ and Afrikaans _binne_ basically mean "inside"
or "within."  The opposites are LS _buten_, Dutch _buiten_ and Afrikaans
_buite_.  (Cf. English "within" <> "without".)

I assume that the pattern is as follows:

LS:
b(e)-IN-en <> b(e)-UUT-en

Dutch:
b(e)-IN-en <> b(e)-UIT-en

Cf. English "beLOW", "beNEATH", "beSIDE(s)", "beYOND".

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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