LL-L "Morphology" 2003.07.22 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 22.JUL.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Frederic Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2003.07.17 (01) [E]

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:18:43 -0700, Lowlands-L <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
wrote:

>From: passmarts at ig.com.br <passmarts at ig.com.br>
>Subject: Old Dutch determiners
>
>Please,
>
>     My name is Ívison and I would like to Know what were the determiners
>like in Old Dutch. I Know where the form HET comes from, but I would like
to
>Know the ancient forms and their declension. Thank you very much.
>
>[Ívison dos Passos Martins]
>
I can't answer to this question since I'm even not dutch speaking. But I
can give the determiners in French Flemish which seem to be more archaic
than in modern dutch.
Vlaemsch always distinguish three genders : masculine, feminine and neutral.
Here are the nominative singular determiners :

"den" (masc.)cut short: "'n"
"de" (fem.)cut short: "d'"
"het" (neut.)cut short: "'t"

It is interesting to note that, when the Flemish was yet strongly in use in
France in the twentieth century, some people were beginning to confound the
masculine and feminine forms in a unique "de" or "d'" form as it is the
case in modern Dutch, at least for the masculine substantives which begin
with a consonant.

The nominative plural form for all genders is
"de" cut short: "d'"

The old form for the feminine singular determiner seems to be
"der" cut short : "'r"

It is attested in the flemish name of the French town "Lille" in
Vlaemsch "Ryssel". The French "Lille" (which comes from "l'Isle" in old
French) means in English "the Island". In Flemish "Island" is "Yssel" (in
Dutch "Ijsel" I think) and is feminine.
In old flemish it should be "'r Yssel" (the Island) and in modern Flemish
we say "d'Yssel" to say "Island" but always "Ryssel" for the town.

There is also an old genitive form that we can found in the old texts like
the old Flemish songs as collected by Edmond de Coussemaker in the
nineteenth century.
This form was:
"des + -s" cut short: 's + -s
as an example in the song "de twee koningskinderen" (the two children of
king)
"'s konings sonne was jonk" (the king's son was young).
Here the genitive is masculine
I don't know if it is the same or other forms for feminine and neutral.
I don't know about any plural forms.

I don't know any more but I will try to research.

Cheers
Frederic Baert

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