LL-L "Names" 2003.03.01 (02) [E]

Sat Mar 1 17:54:57 UTC 2003

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject:  LL-L "Names" 2003.02.28 (01) [E]

> From: Allison Turner-hansen
> <athansen at arches.uga.edu>
> Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.27 (13) [E]
>
> Allison wrote:
 Dear Lowlanders,
The tribal name "Angles", according to two
dictionaries I consulted, was Latin, invented by
Tacitus. He called them that because of the angular
shape of their homeland, it is said. We know that at
some point the Angles called themselves that, hence
"English". This seems to me to be quite odd. What was
their name for themselves? Why would they adopt an
outsider's designation? Could this explanation be a
mistake? Perhaps they already called themselves
"Angles", but with a different  meaning, and Tacitus
drew his own false conclusion. If the latter is true,
could the name "Angles" somehow be derive from "Ing"?
I would appreciate any thoughts you might have on the
subject.
> Fiete wrote:
>
Perhaps the (G) "Angeln" did, etymologically,belong to
Scandinavia, with another history of shifting. At
Danish times Schleswig-Holstein (where we still find
"Angeln") was considered to be geographically part of
Scandinavia. (Allison: what does "Ing" mean- it really
sounds Scandinavic?)
> Ing is apparently the name of a god.  I have heard
this is another name for Frey- is this true, everyone?
 Tacitus called the Ingvaeones that because they
worshipped Ing most.  Ing is an element in many
Germanic
> personal names, such as Ingeborg, Ingrid, Ingmar,
> Ingvar, and so on.  The Ingvaeones were supposed to
dwell on the coast of the North Sea as well as in
Jutland, I think.  I'm not too clear about that.
> The Herminiones that Tacitus described as
worshipping Hermin are equated with the Saxons.  The
name element "Irmen/Irmin" is also common,
> as in Irmengard.  I'd love to find out about this
> god, too, but I don't think anybody knows.
> The god Ist (as in Istvaeones, the Franks) is more
> mysterious yet.  He sure isn't mentioned in the
Eddas.
> I wonder if one or more of these names were from
> Celtic gods who became identified with Germanic
gods?  It seems possible, since there is
> that Celtic substrate in part of the area.
> I'm new to this list, so I'm probably bringing up
> things that have been thoroughly hashed out before.
So as time permits, I'm looking
> through the archives, and I must say I've already
> read some very interesting things there.
> Allison

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Names
>
> Good one (above), Allison!  Thanks.
>
> > I wonder if one or more of these names were from
> Celtic gods who became identified with Germanic
gods?  It seems possible, since there is
> > that Celtic substrate in part of the area.
> That could theoretically be the case in much of
> today's Low-Franconian-speaking areas, since, as I
> understand, they have a Celtic
> past.  All or most of the Saxon-speaking areas,
> however, apparently have no
> Celtic past.  Of course, Southern Germany and much
> of Austria and Switzerland used to be Celtic (and
still have a lot of archeological proof
> of it), but the Germanic-speaking immigrants came
> from the North where apparently there was no Celtic
past, and they already had those tribal names
> before migration.  Of course, there was a lot of
> export and import in the god business at the time.
Saxnot seems to be Saxon-specific.  Or is that
> god related to others?
> > The god Ist (as in Istvaeones, the Franks) is more
> mysterious yet.  He sure isn' mentioned in the
Eddas.

> I wonder if there is a connection with the Asatru
> ("faith of Ã?sir") belief
> systems of Scandinavia and the goddess Ostara ~
> Eostre ~ Astarte ~ Esther (Easter).
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard ~ Ron
------------------------

It is all getting very complicated for small messages.
Some points:

Remember the very impressive Celtic findings in
Danmark.

Herminiones: The is a form of: 'Germanic'; sometimes
the Romans left the Germ. h out (Herman > Arminius],
sometimes they made it a 'g': German; and -oh wonder-
sometimes they kept this H.

Long ago they did a thoroughly research on place
[geographical] names in France. Place names turned out
to be very resistent. One substratum after the other
kept the same names, especially water-names were very
resistent.

2000 years ago the Romans thought it being good
research/manners to let the name of a tribe have an
origin to a god. And they [they also] had a fancy of
making up explanations for geograf. names.

IST- : Why not combine this ist- with the name
ESTland?
[And with some more fantasy also OSTsea?]

vr. gr.
Theo Homan

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