LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (09) [E/S]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 12.NOV.2003 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Szelog, Mike <Mike.Szelog at citizensbank.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (02) [E/S]

Here in the Northeast of the US (New Hampshire) - I learned the next to last
line as "Achoo, achoo" - my daughter (10), however, learned it as "Ashes,
ashes" - as with most "folk songs" the lyrics change from place to place or
generation to generation.

I've heard that someplace in England the song and "dance" are actually done
by adults in commemoration of the Plague.

Mike S

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From: Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
Subject: Traditions


From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.11 (06) [E]

on 12/11/03 9:33,  sandy at scotstext.org wrote:

> Before even considering the text, consider the bubonic plague itself. This
> plague:
>
> 1.    is spread by fleas, therefore can only spread at temperatures
> where flea eggs can incubate;
>
> 2.    is spread by fleas that live a parasitical existence on rats, so
> can't spread faster than rats travel.
>
> Now consider the Black Death, which:
>
> 1.    arrived in southern Italy and swept up the penninsula and right
> across the Alps almost as if they weren't there;
>
> 2.    travelled from Marseilles to Paris at a steady rate of 2 miles per
> day.
>
> 1. contradicts 1. and 2. contradicts 2.

No exactly richt Sandy. I was a medical Entomologist from 1957 until 1995
and am very familiar with plague epidemiology.
Much of the initial infestations began from rats leaving ships docked in
harbours. Rats also were transported around in wagons of foodstuffs for
great distances and even among personal possessions.
Main problem though is there is a much worse variant of plague known as
Pneumonic. This is transmitted by coughs and sneezes and is the really fast
mover once initial reservoirs are established from Xenopsylla cheopis fleas
leaving dead rats. This is commemorated in the rhyme by the closing lines
"Husha! Husha !
All fall down !'

An Scots song of the period commemorates what was probably a case of
pneumonic...Two well born local girls left town to escape the pestilence and
made a small shelter but someone who visited them passed it on anyway.

Hello Tom, Sandy and other Lowlanders
I have attached 2 links describing the Plague and its effects in "far from
Europe" Sydney Australia in 1900.

http://www.maps.jcu.edu.au/hist/fever/plague/life.html

http://www.alhs.org.au/plague.htm

This link refers to possible sources for Jack and Jill nursery rhymes
http://www.sca.org.au/bacchus_wood/origins_of_nursery_rhymes.html

Cheers
Peter Snepvangers
snepvangers at optushome.com.au

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From: jmaguire at pie.xtec.es <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (02) [E/S]

Weel done, Cutty Sark.

That was a bonnie bit o poetry. I hope ye gie us mair in this style.

Tam

> One Scots song of the period commemorates what was probably a
case of
> pneumonic...Two well born local girls left town to escape the
pestilence and
> made a small shelter but someone who visited them passed it
on anyway.
>
> "Bessie Bell an' Mary Gray, they waur twa bonnie lassies,
> Thay built a bour (bower) oan yoan burn brae (river slope)
an' theekit
> (covered) it ower wi rashes (rushes)
> Thay theekit it aw wi rashes green, they theekit it aw wi'
heathir,
> But The Pest cam frae the Burgh Toon an' slew thaim baith the
gither.
> They thoacht tae lie in Nairn Kirkyaird, amung thair noble
kin.
> But noo they lie aboon the brae, an bake aneath the Sin"
> Says it all alas.
> Regards
> Tom
> Tom Mc Rae PSOC
> Brisbane Australia

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