LL-L "Language use" 2003.10.13 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 13.October.2003 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Language use"
Datum: Za, 11 oktober, 2003 10:49 pm

> Onderwerp: " Language use"
> Van: "sam claire" <samclaire at mybluelight.com>
> Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 10:37 pm
>
> Talking about languages which are used only within the family and among
> close friends, etc.  That was the case with English after the Normans
> shrouded the society with their French.  And ultimately English survived
> and won out.

True, but this sort of thing doesn't happen just by luck. Cornish-speaking
scholars
recognised the situation and started a campaign to get people to use the
language
publicly. Of course, the irony of this is not lost on us.

On the other hand, if people won't use a language publicly, then it will
die out.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Dan Ryan-Prohaska <danie at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2003.10.08 (06) [E]
Datum: Zo, 12 oktober, 2003 12:39 am

Gabriele Kahn wrote:

<Gary,
<from now on I'll concede to ANYTHING you say, just as long as you don't
<make me go through this again!! Please - I'll mend my wicked ways. :-)

<The biggest problem with Lower Saxon is that there are so many
different
<flavours of it. But I suppose we can simply have a standard language,
<Higher Lower Saxon (!) with a unified spelling, and various local
dialects <thereof, and everyone lives happily ever after...

The varieties of Low Saxon are no more divers than varieties of Upper
German, or Dutch, just to mention two close relatives.... Both latter
mentioned languages have standard varieties and none of their speakers
feel pressured into giving up the way they speak: "Wat de buur nich
kent, dat vrett hey nich."

Any standardised 'Platt' will look odd, because the people aren't used
to it. The conclusion would be: Provide as much exposure as possible.

I think Reinhard is on the right tracks. To find a common Low Saxon
variety one has to look back to the day and age when Low Saxon was
'official'. A conservative variety will provide a 'roof' to which each
dialect can refer to. This would provide a situation reminiscent of
Faeroese. The written standard does not follow any of the dialects
phonetically, but provides a phonemic frame all dialects can draw from.

I do not understand the animosity people feel towards a standardised
form of Low Saxon whatever its design.

Dan

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Onderwerp: "Language use"
Van: "daniel" <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Datum: Zo, 12 oktober, 2003 12:35 am

--------

Onderwerp: " Language use"
Van: "sam claire" <samclaire at mybluelight.com>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 10:37 pm

Talking about languages which are used only within the family and among
close friends, etc.  That was the case with English after the Normans
shrouded the society with their French.  And ultimately English survived
and won out.

--------

I believe the above is exaggerated. The English always outnumbered the
Anglo-Norman speakers by far. None of us was around at the time of
course, but it is clear from various records that many of the English
speakers were monoglot speakers, the bilinguals and Anglo-Normans being
the privileged. I suspect English was always spoken after the Norman
conquest in and out of the house.

Dan

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