LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.04 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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Onderwerp: "language varieties"
Van: "Ruth & Mark Dreyer" <mrdreyer at lantic.net>


Dear All,

Subject: Language Varieties

I beg leave to object, Halls, that Marcus's question was not settled in your
answer. However, the notes you passed on are most interesting to me, so
carry on! & thanks.

> >does anybody know how to correctly pronounce the letter G in Old >Saxon?
> How is it pronounced in the following words?
> >
> >gi, gespon, manega, euangelium, manag, helagna, alomahtig

I would add, though, I'd like to know this myself.

For reasons which will follow, I'll transliterate the words listed into
M.English & Afrikaans cognates.

géar, gieldan, on-ginnan. O.English
year, yield, begin. M. English
jaar, geld, begin. Afrikaans (jo:r, xeld, b at X@n.)

gamol, gráp, gód. O. English
! - old, grasp, good. M. English
(ge)maal, greep, goed. Afrikaans (x at mo:l, xri:@p, zud.)
('maal' is a construct for 'time', 'repetition', 'multiplication' in
Afrikaans)

singan, wang, leornung. O. English
sing, wang (cheek - obs.), Learning. M. English
sing, wang, Leer. Afrikaans. (s at ng, vong, li:@r)

fugol, dagum. O. English
fowl, day. M. English
voël, dag. Afrikaans (fu:@l, dox)


When you examine the standardised spelling of Modern English (assuming it
was once phonetic, or at least consistant) & compare it with: a) The cognate
word in Afrikaans, which is also phonetic & consistant (& in some ways a
very conservative dialect - as compared, for the moment, only with English),
& b) the cognate word in Modern English _as pronounced_ (& occasionally
spelled), you get a beautiful picture of how English has changed, even if it
doesn't help much with the stages.

It seemed to me, learning to spell English as a child, that the 'G' spoken,
in preparation for the following vowel, high & forward in the mouth (as
though preceeding a 'y'), ended up as 'Y'.

eg. yolk, yell, yard. M. English
      geel, gil, gaard. Afrikaans (xi:l, x at l, xo:rd).
      geoloca, giellan, geard. O. English

Then again the 'G' spoken, in preparation for a following vowel low & back
in the mouth (as though preceding a 'w'), ended up as 'w'.

eg. follow, bow, saw. M. English
      volg, boog, saag. Afrikaans (folx, bu:x, so:x)
      folgen, boga, sagu. O.English

Occasionally, both metamorphoses occur in the same word, though my examples
are slipping here.

eg. yellow, gallows, jaw. M.English
       geel, galg, kaak. Afrikaans
      geolo, gealga, geagl. O. English

& there is the odd wild one; something to do with the difference in
pronunciation North & South of the Humber?

eg. gate. M.English
       yet. Inglis
       gat (hole). Afrikaans
       geat. O. English

It can be seen that in this as in many other cases the knowledge of
Afrikaans was a useful guide to the correct spelling in English!

Yrs,
Mark


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Onderwerp: "language varieties"
Van: "Holger Weigelt" <platt at holger-weigelt.de>


> Onderwerp: west-flemish
> Van: "wartje" <wartje at skynet.be>
>
>
> hi there,does anybody knows if the word "taloore" west-flemish
> (lat.teljoris) means in our dialect 'plate', in Dutch: 'bord',
> if this word or a variation is used in other languages.
> it is a common word in our dialect,i also found it in old books & old
> dictionairies 'teljoor': zuid nederlands word zelden gebruikt
>
>
> de groeten   yves
>

Hello, Yves !

It seems to be the same word as German "Teller" (plate) which is also in use
in Low Saxon.

Regards
Holger


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Onderwerp: "language varieties"
Van: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>


>Onderwerp: Old Saxon pronounciation of G
>Van: Markus Haverkamp <mjhaverkamp at yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
>Thanks, but I'm familiar with Old English pronounciation! It's the Old
>Saxon which I cannot find any materials on. Most of the sounds are fairly
>straight forward, e.g. a 'b' in between vowels will most probably be
>pronounced like a 'v'. But what about the 'g'? Before a slender vowel: y,
>g or ch? In between vowels: ch? etc. etc.

Have you tried here?

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/os_gallee_about.html

I think pronunciation starts from picture 15 in main text.
I don't speak German so I don't know how good it is.

David Barrow


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