LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.18 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18.AUG.2004 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Language varieties

Mark

I think I'd like to hear from other people on the subject of Old English,
Old Saxon and Low German. In particular

a) do my definitions of OE and LG seem reasonable?

b) is there a need for a term to cover OS and OE? My feeling is that if
we've got this far without one there probably isn't.

c) but if a term is needed, on what principles would one construct it?

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Language varieties

I came across an article about Ferring (North Frisian spoken on Foehr and
Amrun) by Frederik Paulsen, then Chairman of the North Frisian Institute,
Bredsted, Netherlands. Some of it is relevant to the question of similarity
and mutual intelligibility of language pairs.

P begins by saying that the closest relative of Ferring is English. "The
majority of all Ferring words are either identical or closely related  to
old [not "Old"] Anglic [?] words, and the rest are identical or closely
related to Scandinavian words." He admits he has no statistics to support
this, but from it I got the impression of Ferringites talking like a bunch
of transplanted Geordies.  He goes on, however, to talk about major
influences of Dutch, Low German and High German on Ferring so the first
picture obviously needs interpretation. Ethnologue provides clarification.
According to its definition of "lexical similarity" Ferring actually has
more in common with German than with English and is even closer to East and
West Frisian. So obviously a large number of words are common to all these
languages and Paulsen's observation is highly misleading.

Paulsen comments further on the effects of German on Ferring, concluding
with the following:

"The close relationship of Ferring to English is not only based on the
similarity of the stock of words, but also on the similarity of the patterns
of the languages. [Ferring], like English, uses more verbs than
substantives, whereas German does just the opposite ... To give an example
of the richness of our language in this respect ... a little Ferring poem
uses more than ninety different words for 'go'."

Obviously this goes quite wrong at the end because he's confusing the
absolute number of verbs with the frequency with which they are used, but
the first point is also dubious. He is referring to the German
'Nominalstil', which as its name suggests is purely a style, a way of
writing (and writing more than speaking) the language. We might think of it
as a weighty, pseudo-academic style. German written in this way is no more
or less German than German written in the more straightforward verbal style.

Some key points which seem to me to emerge from all this are:
1. There are lots of different ways of comparing the similarity of
languages.
2. A conscientious person ought to take into account as many as possible and
not just the ones which support his/her views.
3. It is important to define the degree of similarity where cognates are
concerned.
4. The basis of frequency statistics should be defined - type of speech or
text, whether one is counting a given word once or each time it appears,
etc.
5. It is important to distinguish fundamental and superficial
characteristics of languages.

In relation to this last point, English speakers find structures like "The
on the mat sitting cat was purring" very "Germanic". But we have the
essentially same structure in "The cat sitting on the mat was purring". This
is actually a major point of similarity between the languages which many
others lack.

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi from the peanut gallery, John!

Just for the sake of early correctness, the name of the North Frisian
dialect in question is "Fering" (German often _Fehring_, older _Vehring_,
also _Föhring_).  So it has a long "e" (['fe:riN]).  The island (_Föhr_ in
German) is _Feer_ in Fering.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

***

   LEEW EILUN FEER

   (Knütj Bruller Knütjen / Knud Broder Knudsen)

   Alhuar ik henkem üüb a eerd,
   alhü uk het det lun:
   at jaft dach man an ian eilun Feer,
   det leit mi boowen uun.
   An kaam ’k uk hen uun ’t lokelkst steed,
   huar surgen goor ej wiar,
   toocht ik dach äeder an uk leed
   am di, min eilun Feer.

My translation:

   DEAR ISLE OF FEER

   Wherever I get to on this earth,
   Whatever name a land may bear,
   There’s just a single Isle of Feer,
   And in my mind it is the best.
   If I got to the happiest place
   Where worries don’t exist,
   All day long, from dusk to dawn,
   I’d think of you, my Isle of Feer.

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