LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.24 (11) [E]

Tue Aug 24 21:21:12 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (08) [D/E]

Beste Fred van Brederode,

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (07) [E]

> John Baskind wrote:
>
> > ten allen tijde = always
>
> Deze uitdrukking schijnt gespeld te moeten worden als: "te allen tijden",
> dus zonder de 'n' achter te
> De schrijfwijze komt voort uit lang vergeten naamvallen. Misschien dat
> anderen van de lijst weten hoe dat zo komt.
>
> The correct spelling seems to be: "te allen tijden"
> It must have something to do with long forgotten cases. Perhaps someone
else
> of the list knows why this spelling is correct.

U moet verstaan ons Afrikaners gebruik mos die Ou Taal in ons eie besondere
wyse.
Jan Baskind het dit reg wat dit 'ten' betref, alvolgens ons gebruik. Ek haal
aan uit die Verklarende Groot Woordeboek, Kritzinger, Labuschagne en
Pienaar; 'ten alle tye - altyd'.

You must understand we Afrikaners actually use the Old Tongue in our own
unique way.
Jan Baskind has it right as concerns 'ten', according to our usage. I quote
from the Vertalende Groot Woordeboek, (Kritzinger, Steyn, Schoonees en
Cronjé); 'Ten alle tye - at all times.'

Die Uwe,
Mark

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.24 (02) [E/LS]

Dear John Feather,

Subject: Language Varieties

> >Dutch "meer" is cognate with English "more" (Old English "ma:ra",
"ma:re")<
>
> This "meer" is what we technically call "a completely different word".

Let's pass it around though, that what we have here are what we technically
call "two homophones".
One word, 'meer' refers to a body of water, as in 'Ysselmeer' (Nederland) &
'Chrissiemeer' (South Africa).
The other word, 'meer' means 'more' in both Nederlands & Afrikaans.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.24 (02) [E/LS]

Dear Gary Taylor

Subject: Language Varieties

> I've got a question regarding lexicon. I remember
> reading somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that
> there were two words (probably more) that were
> extremely different depending on where you come from
> in England. One of these was for the soft shoe that
> children wear when doing indoor sports - I call it a
> plimsoll

The original Plimsoll was a philanthropist who introduced reforms into the
loading practice on merchant ships. The 'plimsoll line' is a circle crossed
with a horizontal line, painted on the hull of the ship, & demarcates the
deepest level to which it may be loaded, to avoid sinking in heavy weather.
The sailors in appreciation of him named a more personal safety item in his
honour, which prevented the sailor himself from 'going over' in heavy
weather. It was the customary sailor's sailcloth & rope-soled shoes, with
gutta percha painted underneath (good 'roadholding' on wet decks).
Non-sailors also call them 'tennis shoes (which used to be played on wooden
floors), espidrilles (incorrectly), takkies (in South Africa - for the
'takky rubber' painted underneath) & sneakers', among many other names.

> the other one was the word for when
> children are playing games and they cross their
> fingers to show exemption from the game for a short
> time - I call it vainlites (I checked this with my
> parents - my mum says the same as me, my dad calls it
> vainites - my spelling for both).

In S.Africa, it is 'fains I' (with crossed fingers) meaning, 'I declare my
immunity in this game' (from being 'on' in a game of catch, for example).
The opposite is 'bags I', meaning, 'I claim it!' (to anything being shared
out) or 'I claim the position of honour in this game!' (to be 'on' in a game
of catch, for example).

Both English & Afrikaans kids use it, (or used to) & we were lead to
understand it came from the British Public Schools.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.24 (05) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Luc, Lowlanders,
> A pond or a pool can also be a _brak_ (<Brack>, neut., pl. _braks_
> <Bracks>).  Technically speaking, or originally at least, this denotes
> a
> body of water that forms behind a dyke as a consequence of a break or
> of
> leakage.  I wonder if it has anything to do with English "brack(en)."
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Ron,
Could this incoming water have been from the see?
In Flemish we say that a lake is filled with "brak" water, meaning that
it is salty and not  suitable for consumption .

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Luc!

It's "brackish water" in English as well, meaning muddy, unclean water in a
water hole or course.

It's _brakwater_ (<Brackwater>, neut.) in Lowlands Saxon (Low German).  It
has been borrowed into German as _Brackwasser_  In some dialects it
specifically denotes muddy water at river mouths or in deltas, where fresh
water and saltwater come together.

There is also the word _brakkel-kraam_ (<Brackelkraam>, masc. ~ neut.)
'useless stuff', which I assume is related.

English has archaic _brack_ with the same meaning.  Middle Saxon and Middle
Dutch both have _brak_, also with the same meaning, and one of them may or
may not be the source of English _brack_ and _brackish_ in this sense.
Middle Saxon also has _brakken_ (<bracken>) 'to sort goods' (i.e., separate
inferior ones).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Troy Sagrillo <meshwesh at bigfoot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.24 (02) [E/LS]

on 24.08.2004 4.07 PM, john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:

> Just to be clear, "pond" is Middle English with no known previous
ancestry,
> related to "pound". Originally artificial  - a fish pond, a duck pond.

Clark Hall's Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary gives pynd "cistern?, lake?"
(and thus questionable), but it would seem to be related to pynding "dam"
and pyndan "to shut up, impound"

> BTW, where is "dam" used for the water behind a retaining wall? I thought
it
> was US but it's not in Chambers (US) Dictionary of Etymology though it is
in
> Chambers (UK) Dictionary.

The American Heritage Dictionary gives such a meaning, but only as a
secondary usage. I grew up in the western USA and never heard "dam" used in
such a way until now. In my mind at least, "dam" only refers to the
retaining wall. Perhaps down south or out east things are different.

Best,

Troy

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