LL-L "Holidays" 2004.12.05 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Holidays" 2004.12.04 (08) [E/F]

Ron schreev:
>
> Henry (above):
>
>> What's with the Frisian?
>
> (I love your up-to-date idiomatic command of English!  My compliments!)
>
I just watched too many (American) movies and TV shows I guess.

> (3) I was just being myself (two of my domestic nicknames being "parrot
> head" and "Buttje" -- but that's only for you and me to know, Henry).
 >
Don't worry, if you won't mention that on the list, I won't either...

> Also
> remember that I have to live up to the reputation of my vulpine namesake
> Reynard,** and he was a bit of a naughty boy, as you probably know.
>
Actually, the only thing I remember is his reputation. Maybe I should
refresh my memory a little when I have time.

Henry

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Holidays" 2004.12.04 (08) [E/F]

>>>>> Yes, in the Netherlands Sinterklaas or Sint Nicolaas is celebrated on
the 5th of December (today) traditionally,
but every child knows that his real birthday is the 6th. I was told that too
when I was still young enough to believe in this
Goedheiligman, as well as the fact that he and his Moorish servants, the
Zwarte Pieten, give their presents to the
children in (Flemish) Belgium one they later than to us. Of course because
they are already on the way back South to Spain,
then. What is Father Christmas in most other Western cultures, Sinterklaas
means for Dutch children, though the last
decades Santa is getting foot on our beaches too, unfortunately. His name
Santaclaus is derived from Sinterklaas, of course.

Speaking about Frisian: I know that in Friesland, at least at the Waddensea
Islands, their are still some traditional
Sinterklaas customs that differ quite a lot from the general Dutch ones.
Maybe our Fryske Freone can tell us more?

By the way, I can imagine that for Frisians this list is not the most
logical choice to participate, since their have always
been some feelings of competition or even animosity between them and their
Low Saxon neighbours.
Us Dutch Low Saxons feel a bit jealous about Frisian being recognized as a
seperate language for so long, the standardisation
and literature in Frisian and their "national" pride. Between Friesland and
Groningen these feelings can be particularly strong,
but I know too that the Low Saxon speaking South Eastern parts of the
province of Friesland, called De Stellingwerven,
don't consider themselve as Frisians, and they even say: ik gao Frieslaand
in (I'm going into Frisia) when they visit the
Frisophone villages or towns just next to their own.

The Low Saxons in the Eastern Netherlands are generally a bit more easy
going and modest, not such assertive people,
the ethnic Frisians like to speak loud and always want to be 'honest', which
in many cases means blunt or rude in Saxon eyes.
That's where we can see that the inhabitants of the Western Netherlands, the
Hollanders, originally have a Frisian background
too, because they have the same kind of behaviour generally, and may Saxon
"immigrants" in the West find that difficult to
deal with. That will have to do with big city behaviour in the Randstad too,
of course, but in the countryside the Hollandic
people may have these features even stronger (like the Frisians).

Maybe these are overgeneralizations and prejudices, in that case: sorry, I
just used them to make something clear.
And to challenge the Frisians to give their reaction, of course!

Ingmar

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Holiday

Hmmm ... Ingmar, it looks like your holiday train got derailed in the end.
;-)

> And to challenge the Frisians to give their reaction, of course!

Yeah, but under a different heading, such as "Image".

What you're talking about may be the case or may be believed in the
Netherlands.  It sure as heck doesn't apply to this list.  Henno, who has
been on the List for ages, is a dear friend of us Saxons, and so are the
other Frisians on the List.  It doesn't really apply to Germany either.
After all, our friends in Eastern Friesland, Emsland and parts of Oldenburg
are in fact both Saxon and Frisian, as are those of Groningen (though I've
been told that some of the latter tend to take offense at this
"allegation").  The basic populations of those areas were Frisian but came
under Saxon rule and adopted the Saxon language.

Enjoy your holiday!

Reinhard/Ron

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