LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.12.08 (09) [E/F]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 08.DEC.2004 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.12.07 (04) [A/E/S]

>> Henno het skreaun:
>
>> It begruttet my al dat de Noard-Friezen en Sealter Friezen (at dy der
>> al op 'e list binne?, de lêsten binne seldsum) harren net faker hearre
> litte.
>
>>>>>> My ek... Me too...
>
>> Yn 'e stêden wurdt Stedfrysk praten, en de measte stêden hewwe yndie
>> in
>> brijkjende, keel-R. dit komt faker foar, dat stêden in oare R hawwe as
>> it lân deromhinne, dit is ek sa foar Swol en Kampen mids de Oeriselske
>> dialekten. Myn omke (oantroud) komt út Swol (Zwolle) en het yndie sa'n
>> R, mar net sa'n opfallenden ien as myn omkes út Harns (Harlingen)....
>> It jildt ek as in middel om jin te ûnderskieden fan de "boeren" út de
>> omkriten....
>> De lytsere stêden (as Dokkum) hewwe neffens my mear in tong r bewarre,
>> hoewol't dat tink allinnich mar mear jildt foar de âldere ginneraasje.
>
>>>>>> Is this uvular r only used in Stedfrysk or in real Frisian too, in
> some
> cities or villages? I mean, there must be cities in Friesland where
> Frisian
> is spoken in stead of this 'City Frisian', e.g. It Fean (Heerenveen)?
> *Ingmar

It Fean is gjin "stêd" (yn 'e histoaryske sin; it het gjin
stedsrochten) mar yndie âl it twadde plak fan 'e previnsje. Der wurdt
wol foar it meast Frysk praten, mar it persintaasje nimt ôf, tocht ik.
Oer de kwaliteit fan de r dêr doar ik neat seze, ik kom der mar selden,
en ik wenje bûten Fryslân.
Yn Woarkum en Drylts wurdt gewoan Frysk praten, dit binne heel lytse
plakjes (1000 minsken of sa, mar histoarysk in stêd). Yn Starum hewwe
se har harren eigen fariant fan it Stêdsk en yn Hylpen prate se in heel
eigen, suver Frysk, argaysk dialekt.
Yn it gewoane Frysk komt in keel-r mar selden foar, yn beskate
femyljes, en it wurdt sjoen as in ôfwiking, mar it stigma is net sa
hele greot.

Mei freonlike groetnis,

Henno Brandsma

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.12.08 (02) [E/F]

>>>>>What a coincidence Ben, I had a class mate in Eindhoven (NL)long ago,
whose name was Van Sambeek too.
She was from the North Eastern part of the province of Noord-Brabant, and
that is the region where the village of
Sambeek is situated, at the river Meuse. This area is called Land van Cuijk,
the nearest city is Nijmegen.
Its dialect could be described as Kleverlands or Zuid-Gelders.
These dialects are part of the South Central dialect group of Dutch, Low
Franconian dialects in all the province
of Noord-Brabant (NL), Duffelt=the Northern part of Limburg (NL), Southern
part of Gelderland (NL), the provinces of
Oost-Vlaanderen (Belgium) and Antwerpen (B), and the Dutch speaking part of
Brabant and Brussels (B),
and in Kleverland, the land of Cleves, in Germany.
Sambeek, and the Land van Cuijk, are a bit apart from the other
Noord-Brabants dialects, because they
do not diphthongize Old Germanic long i and long u. So, Land van Cuijk
'kieke' ["kik@] = to watch and
'huus' [hys] = house, rest of Brabant: kijke, kêke, kaike
["kEik@]-["kE:k@]-["ka:ik@] and huis, hêûs, hous, hois
[hays]-[h9:s]-[hOus]-[hOis] etc. The surroundings of Eindhoven have (had)
hous [hOus] and kijke ["kEjk@],
Helmond hois [hOis] and kaike ["ka:ik@], but the biggest part of
Noord-Brabant, including Tilburg and Den BOsch
('s-Hertogenbosch, on the map), something like hêûs [h9:s]-[h3:s] and kêke
["kE:k@].
In Sambeek, as I said, huus [hys] and kieke ["kik@], as in all Kleverland,
Zuid-Gelderland and Duffelt.

But I think Mathieu van Woerkom can give you some links about Brabant and
Limburg dialects in the Netherlands,
and maybe he knows even more interesting things to tell about this. *Ingmar
Roerdinkholder

> Ben Bloomgren wrote:
> Hello, All. I met a lady on the way back to my dormitory yesterday whose
> surname was Van Sambeek. She said that there is a little town in the
> Netherlands by that name, but she does not know where it is or anything
> about  it. Where is it? How does its dialect sound compared with its
closest urban
> neighbor?
> Graag,> Ben

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