LL-L "Language perception" 2004.01.12 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language perception" 2004.01.11 (03) [E]

Glenn Simpson wrote:
"Most discrimination is subtle or implicit but
insidious, in the sense that people realise they won't
'get-on' in life or will be seen as less well educated
if they don't drop their accent or modify it
significantly. This is not just a question of moving
up the social scale in life, getting a good job or
earning more money (vitally important as these are)
but also there is a real impact on the personal lives
of individuals from 'less favoured' regions, in terms
of their confidence and self-esteem. People are often
made to feel inferior because of where they are born
and how they speak. In the UK, accent and speech is one of the last areas of
public life where active discrimination takes place. This is
self-evident..."

Thanks, Glenn. This is essentially the point I was trying to get across to
Sandy, who wasn't having a bar of it for some reason. Just because Sandy has
miraculously avoided censure of his own (Scottish) accent (and variant,
presumably), he should not believe that the rest of us (with English
accents) have ever been so lucky.

For the record, I have heard many people "taking the piss" out of persons
with Scottish accents, particularly after the film Trainspotting came out
(largely because that film dealt with Scottish heroin addicts). There was
even a sketch on a Harry Enfield programme a handful of years back,
featuring one of the actors from Trainspotting, that played on the
well-known fact that many in the RP class stereotype Scottish accents as the
mark of drunken, violent psychopaths.

But of course this thread could easily turn into the battle of the
anecdotes, couldn't it? No doubt Sandy will thrill us with more tall tales
of his miraculous deafness to any denigration of UK regional accents. More
power to you, Sandy! Wish I had the same experiences.

Criostóir.

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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: 'perceptions '[E]

Dear all,

On being ridiculed for a Scots accent - I was
listening to an interview a few weeks back with the
Speaker of the House of Commons, Michael Martin the MP
for Glasgow, who said that he was ridiculed for his
strong Glaswegian accent when he first got the job.
This came from both fellow MPs and the press. So, this
sort of thing still goes on, even at the highest
levels in the UK.

Keep ahaad,

Glenn Simpson
Prudhoe
North'd

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From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Language perception" 2004.01.11 (03) [E]

Hello,

> How many UK-wide news readers speak with accents other
> than a BBC accent, or neutral accent or perhaps on
> occasion a 'refined national accent' (Scots, Welsh or
> Northern Ireland)? Don't hear many Northumbrian,
> Brummie, Scouse or Somerset accents! The Deputy PM
> John Prescott is ridiculed by the metropolitan media
> not just because he is perhaps not the most articulate
> person in the world but also because of his strong
> accent. The same could be said of George Bush, whose
> 'folksy speech' is seen as poor English by many in the
> UK.

This used to be true. I listen a lot to the worldservice and they seem
to fall over themselves to include people from many countries speaking
English with their own accent. One extreme to the other, I suppose, but
I prefer this extreme - sounds more tolerant, somehow.

> I am not really qualified to fully analyze the U.K. situation, and my
> observations may be a bit dated and skewed.  However, my general
impression
> is that in England there tends to be a difference between having a
Scottish
> "accent" and having a "grossly" non-"standard" England English "accent."
In
> Britain and among British people elsewhere I have *never* heard any
negative
> comments about anyone's Scottish "accent," but I have heard negative
> comments from English people about other English people's "accents."  I
have
> observed this being a two-way street, speakers of "posh accents" and
> "common" ones making behind-the-back remarks about each other and allowing
> their prejudices against each other to influence the tone of their
> interactions.

I think this is the heart of accent criticism - they are not criticising
accents, but perceived class relationship. This seems to be the nastier
side of English snobbery - snobs (= a corruption of 'sin
nobilitate')trying to pick out anyone "sin nobilitate", ironically.

Tom

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