LL-L "Names" 2004.01.16 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 16.JAN.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2004.01.15 (04) [E]

This is what it says at the online etymology dictionary at

http://www.etymonline.com/

cravat - 1656, from Fr. cravate, from Cravate "Croatian," from Ger.
Krabate, from Serbo-Croat Hrvat "a Croat," from O.Slav. Churvatinu
"Croat," lit. "mountaineer, highlander," from churva "mountain." Cravats
came into fashion 1650s in imitation of linen scarves worn by Croatian
mercenaries in the French army in the Thirty Years War.

David Barrow

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From: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2004.01.15 (04) [E]

There is also the use in Southern-west-flemish, of the pejorative
denoting "roare krwoat" meaning "strange or bizarre guy".
I allways wondered where that might come from. The connecting or
possible meeting between Croatians and Flemish doesn't seem very
obvious in history.

Denis Dujardin
Kortrijk
West-Flanders

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Denis (above):

> I allways wondered where that might come from. The connecting or
> possible meeting between Croatians and Flemish doesn't seem very
> obvious in history.

This may very well not go back to actual contacts but to indirect loaning,
possibly via Lowlands Saxon (Low German).  Remember that even in early times
linguistic and cultural items tended to be shared very widely within the
Continental Lowlands, i.e., in the "Nederduytsch"-speaking parts of Europe
(including Limburgish, Dutch, Flemish-Zeelandic, Lowlands Saxon, Frisian,
etc.), often extended into the Scandinavian- and German-speaking worlds.  In
many cases it is virtually impossible where a given item started.  This also
goes for those loanwords in English that are marked as "Dutch" or "Low
German," because loaning from either of them very often seems possible, and
many words were similar or identical in both languages at the Middle Dutch
and Middle Saxon stages (before massive German influences on the latter).

This is why the other day I said: "There's always stuff to think about and
to remember that all cultures and people are linked with each other."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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