LL-L "Language use" 2004.07.02 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 02.JUL.2004 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Troy Sagrillo <meshwesh at bigfoot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2004.07.02 (01) [E]

Hello all,

I would like to comment on some of the issues regarding Flemish activism,
etc. in Belgium from the perspective of an immigrant. First of all, I do not
live in Brussel or the region (and avoid it as much as possible), so my
views may or may not apply there. Also, I am an American who is here due to
marriage and not because of NATO, work for a multinational, etc. (those
types of expats tend to just learn a minimum of French and be done with it
since they will leave again eventually and are mainly in and around
Brussel).

As soon as I moved here, I enrolled in Dutch courses offered for free with
the Onthaalbureau of the city of Leuven. In addition to the gratis language
courses, I also attended a weekly course over life in Belgium, social
services, Flemish society, etc. However, before being allowed to attend, I
had to sign a contract agreeing to come at least 75% of the time and take
the final examination. I do not know what would have happened if I had not
done so.

This language course was 4 days per week, for 4 hours per day and lasted
about 3 1/2 months. After successfully passing it, the Onthaalbureau
facilitated my moving to an intermediate course elsewhere. These courses are
also free, but do require payment for the course materials. Other students
chose to go into more technical Dutch for a particular job sector, or to
take job training courses.

In addition to myself, there was another Yank, a Canadian, a number of
Eastern Europeans, Arabs (mainly North African and Iraqi), Turks, and Nepali
(Leuven has a very large Nepali population for some reason), raging in age
from about 18 to late 60s.

Similar programmes are available in Onthaalbureaus in major cities around
Flanders and are, from what I understand, being strongly promoted. The aim
is of course the acquisition of language skills, but also an understanding
of Flemish and Belgian society with the goal of integration. Job assistance
is also provided. They will even pay for babysitting so mothers can come,
give free bus passes to those without cars or bikes, and will teach people
to read if they can't. (Well, "free" at taxpayer expense.) Most of the
students were very grateful for all this, though of course there were some
who didn't see the point as they they knew French and/or English already.
They were there for a job requirement more than anything.

Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be> wrote:

> Flemish language activists demand extreme respect for their language
> (for example, they would like to enforce anybody moving to Flanders to
> speak Flemish within a certain amount of time)...however...if they
> themselves are moving to Lapland, Albania, Kamchatka or Madagascar for
> that matter, very few of them will master the local language within that
> same short amount of time.

I have to disagree. People with a "minority" native language moving to
another area with a language they don't know tend to learn at least a basic
level as quickly as possible because they have to. Those with a "majority"
language just assume everyone else will accommodate them (and they will be
accommodated in most instances too). I made the decision to learn Dutch as
soon as possible because I want to work and participate in Flemish society.
I would find it exceptionally rude to not do so. I wouldn't expect any less
of an immigrant to the USA with regard to English.

In my opinion, I think it boils down to the acceptance or not of the native
peoples as to how much they are willing to accommodate. In past years in the
USA, learning English was a requirement (a legal one I believe). Now that is
considered by various activist groups be racist and consequently there are
large numbers of immigrants (legal and illegal) who do not speak English and
have no intention of doing so. The legal requirement certainly is no longer
there. American society is now then forced to become bilingual or to
unfortunately marginalise the the immigrants.

denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be> wrote:

> There are several bilingual Walloon towns and villages, where Flemish
> minorities have theoretical rights to claim their administration in their
> language. They are bullied to an extreme extend. How dare they ask for
> language rights in a French spoken area?

On a related note, Brussel is officially bilingual. However, it has been my
experience that even officials of the federal government refused to speak
Dutch (and they certainly must have known it to be hired). In my particular
case, I had to have some paper work stamped by the Ministry of the Interior
before I was allowed to marry in Belgium. The clerk who was "assisting" me
and my fiancée (who is Flemish) would not speak Dutch *at all*. Now if I had
been by myself I really would have been stuck since I don't know French.
Ironically I could have used English (not an official language), but not
Dutch. My wife just laughs about it and says "its just Brussel; ignore it"
but I found it incredibly disrespectful. It is one thing for a storekeeper
not to use Dutch, but not a government official conducting official
business.

All the best,

Troy

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Troy, Lowlanders,

Here in my general work area there is a Belgian from Brussels.  He is of
Flemish background, and his first language is Flemish.  His wife is from
Antwerp and speaks Flemish and Belgian Standard Dutch, as he does.  Both of
them know French as a second language, besides English.

While he and his wife humor me when I want to converse with them in Dutch or
ask for help with Dutch, he has revealed to me several time that he firmly
believes that Dutch, including Flemish, Brabantish, etc., is a waste of
time, not only for foreigners to learn but in fact for Belgians to bother
with, and he has revealed his disdain for things Dutch and for the
Netherlands on many occasions, usually in a supposedly jocular fashion.

I can hear that he and his wife privately converse in Dutch/Flemish,
sometimes lapsing into English.  They do not speak Dutch to their three
children.  When I asked him why, he said that it was a waste of their time
and brain power.  Their children speak English as a first language.  Their
oldest daughter once expressed a desire to learn Dutch, because they often
visit Belgium, and their grandparents visit here, and she "just likes it."
He tried to talk her out of it, telling her that she would be better off
learning French and/or German.  (However, during a stay with her
grandparents she did manage to become moderately conversant in Dutch.)

By the way, as should be expected given what I have explained above, he
seems to regard my engagement regarding my ancestral Lowlands Saxon (Low
German) simply ludicrous.  His wife, on the other hand, said she finds it
"neat" that she and I can converse in our respective languages and
understand each other pretty well.  I don't really think this is
patronizing, because she seems to enjoy it and she is a generally
accommodating person (perhaps too accommodating as far as the education of
their children is concerned, if you ask me).

I do not know how representative this guy is for Flemish-background
residents of Brussels.  I can simply not understand how anyone can view his
own heritage with so much disdain.  (I have not even come across such an
extreme attitude of what almost seems like self-loathing among Israelis that
were born and raised in Germany.)  If this is not uncommon, the fate of
Flemish seems grim indeed, at least in Brussels, if disdain for and
disregard of it is not confined to French-speaking Belgians but has spilled
over to Flemish-speaking ones as well.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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