LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.07 (01) [E]

Wed Jul 7 14:40:04 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.04 (04) [E]

Lowlands-L wrote:
For me because of  my surname all this talk about mountain terms is very
interesting :-)

Even if it has been semantically demoted

David Barrow

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Lexicon
>
>Dear Lowlanders,
>
>Here's another question about lexical inventory in Lowlands languages.
>
>I am more concerned about actual, native, original, normal usage than about
>availability of lesser-used expressions and neologisms.
>
>I have noticed that (again, in ordinary speech) both Lowlands Saxon (Low
>German) and Scots tend to use the same word for "hill" and "mountain":
>
>Lowlands Saxon: _barg_ <Barg> [ba:x]
>Scots: _hill_ ~ _hull_
>
>German and English, on the other hand, clearly distinguish between _Hügel_
>and _Berg_ and between "hill" and "mountain" respectively.
>
>Yiddish may represent an intermediate type, using _barg_ בארג (in some
>dialects _berg_ בערג) for 'mountain' and its diminutive form _bergl_ בערגל
>for 'hill'.
>
>Now, in Lowlands Saxon you can use _bült_ <Bült> [bY.lt] or _knül_ <Knüll>
>[knY.l] for 'hill', but I feel that these rather denote very small hills,
>"glorified bumps," "knolls" in fact.  The normal word for both "hill" and
>"mountain" is _barg_.
>
>Similarly, you have available the Romance-derived word _muntain_ for
>'mountain' in Scots, besides Celtic-derived _ben_ for very tall peaks of
the
>Scottish highlands.  But from my reading I take it that in normal Scots
>_hill_ ~ _hull_ applies to 'mountain' as well.
>
>Note also that in English "hill" is of native origin while "mountain" is a
>Romance loan.
>
>I believe that the numerous Frisian varieties of the Netherlands and
Germany
>have similar lack of distinction.
>
>I keep wondering if this apparent (original?) lack of distinction is
because
>in the Lowlands you don't get anything that is taller than what we call a
>"hill."  Real "mountains" are outside the original language region.
>Newcomers to Hamburg, Germany, find it rather strange to find a range of
>hills south of the southern branch of River Elbe referred to as _Harborger
>Bargen_ (LS) and _Harburger Berge_ (G).  To people of the area they seem
>like mountains (at least in the olden days), and they even try to ski on
>them if there is snow in the winter.  The closest real mountains are the
>Harz Mountains, that lie on the southern edge of the language area.
>
>I wonder if there are similar situations in other Lowlands language
>varieties, especially in the varieties of the Netherlands, Belgium and
>Northern France.  I am less interested in reference to "real" ("exotic")
>mountains outside that area.  I also wonder if those varieties "act"
>differently from Afrikaans, given that Afrikaans-speaking areas (i.e.,
>Southern Africa) do indeed have both hills (_heuwels_, _bulte_, _koppies_,
>_rantjies_) and mountains (_berge_, _koppe_), besides knolls (_bulties_,
>_heuwelties_).
>
>Thanks for thinking about it!
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Tom <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.06 (05) [E]

From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>

>Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.05 (06) [E]
>
>Dear Sandy Fleming & All,
>
>Subject: "Lexicon" [E]
>
>>Some common terminology involving 'brae'.
>
>It's no surprise to me how developed a terminology the Scots have on every
>kind & context or degree of 'slope'.
>is there any level place in that country at all - apart from the courtyard
>before Holyrood Castle?
>
>Yrs,
>Mark

Well consider yourself lucky to live after the ice age when the glaciers
rounded down the Scottish mountains which were then higher than the Alps.

Regards,

Tom [Maguire]

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From: marco [evenhuiscommunicatie] <marco at evenhuiscommunicatie.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.06 (11) [E]

Roger Hondshoven wrote:

> General Dutch distinguishes between 'heuvel' ("hill") and 'berg'
> ("mountain"). Flemish, indeed, has lost 'heuvel'. All mountains and hills,
> whether low or tall, are indiscriminately called 'berg'. In some
placenames,
> however, 'hil/hul' has been preserved: e.g. Lotenhulle (in East-Flanders).

Zeelandic has the words 'berg' (pronounciation mostly 'barg') and '(h)il'.
'Berg' is used for almost every bump in the landscape, but is used
particularly for artificial mouds that were erected as a safe have during
floodings and (viking) raids in the 10th-13th century. Some of them have
eroded and are only 50cm high now, others have changed very little and still
have their original, impressive dimensions (usually between 20 and 30 meters
in diameter, 2-12 meters high) and are a very characteristic feature in the
landscape of some parts of Zeeland. On the isle of Walcheren, about 20 of
these 'bergen' still exist.
More information (in Dutch) and a picture can be found at
http://www.hetzeeuwselandschap.nl/kaart/index.php?kaart=23

The word '(h)il' can be used for a proper hill, but is mostly used for high
sand dunes along the coast. In the coastal town of Domburg for instance, one
of the most prominent dunes in the village is called 'den 'ogen 'il' (the
high hill).
On the isle of Goeree-Overflakkee, a 'hil' is one of the words for a farm. I
bet this goes back to the days when houses, farmhouses, etc. where built on
a mound for protection against floodings.

Regards,

Marco

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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Lexicon [E/N]

Dear Ruth/Mark & all,

The word 'haugh(s)' is extremely common in
Northumberland. It is understood as a flat area of
land usually adjacent to a river. I suspect it is an
area of flood plain that is highly fertile which our
Anglian ancestors made particular note of, hence the
number of them across Northumberland. There is also
the word 'heugh', which I've forgotten the meaning of
but will research it.

On hills, the word 'bank' is often used where a hill
has a road, footpath or steps going up/down.

Gan canny,

Glenn Simpson

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.06 (08) [E]

> From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
> Subject: "Lexicon" [E]
>
>> From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
>> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.05 (06) [E]
>>
>> Dear Sandy Fleming & All,
>>
>> Subject: "Lexicon" [E]
>>
>>> Some common terminology involving 'brae'.
>>
>> It's no surprise to me how developed a terminology the Scots have on
>> every
>> kind & context or degree of 'slope'.
V:schuinte / helling / glooiing /
>> is there any level place in that country at all - apart from the
>> courtyard
>> before Holyrood Castle?

In Flemish there is a disappeard word, "bra" that had the meaning of
"berm"(=E:verge).
We still use the word the verb "brauwen" in " 't land brauwen" (= to
make a winterbed of the soil in the garden, to make verges)
"een brauw" was a little path on a hight.
Could that be related to our eyebrow (V: wenkbrauw)?

> It's not called the Lowlands for nothing! There are many flat, arable
> areas.
>
> Large flat areas are called "plains" as in English, eg the Lothian
> Plain.
 From French: la plaine
V: vlakte
>
> A low-lying region amongst hills (a hollow as in Sleepy Hollow) is
> called a
> "howe", eg the Howe o Fife, the Howe o Auchterless.
>
> A small, flat low-lying area, perhaps as small as a few fields, is
> called a
> "hauch", usually written "Haugh" on maps, eg the North Haugh in St
> Andrews,
> Fife.
>
> A fertile low-lying region in a glaciated valley with a river running
> through the middle is called a "carse", eg the Carse o Gowrie.
>
> A flat arable area that has been turned into fields is called "meedaes"
> (cognate with English "meadows"), eg "The Meedaes" - the plot of
> fields to
> the west of my own village.
V: meers / bilk / (wei)land /
>
> Sandy
> http://scotstext.org/
groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

----------

From: Brian Holton <ctbah at polyu.edu.hk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.07.05 (05) [E]

I've just had a squint at the Scots Thesaurus (Scottish National Dictionary
Association: Aberdeen, 1990), where i see pp42-45 are devoted to
topographical  vocabulary. Well worth a look, as is  the CASD/DoST site at
http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/, where you can enter "hill" or "mountain" and
search for all occurences in definitions - which pretty much gives you and
English-Scots dictionary, too.

brian

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