LL-L "Idiomatica" 2004.07.23 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.JUL.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Idiomatica

Beste Ron,

> Don't you also use the tag _... nê?_ or _... nè?_ where
> English uses tag questions ("..., isn't it?", "..., don't
> you?" etc.), Standard German uses _..., nicht wahr?_
> (dialectal _..., net?_, _..., gell(e)?_, etc.) and French
> uses _..., n'est pas?_?
>
> In Missingsch (i.e., German dialects on Lowlands Saxon
> substrates) and in North German dialects influenced by
> Missingsch, it's _..., nä?_ also, pronounced virtually
> identically with Afrikaans _... nê?_.  Some "ete-petete"
> Hamburgers (those that want to come across as more
> sophisticated than their linguistic roots permit) will say
> _..., näch?_, influenced by German _..., nicht (wahr)?_.  It
> tends to be _..., ne_ in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) also,
> usually pronounced [nE] also.
>
> Examples:
>
> LS:
> Dat 's ja man 'n beten düyr, ne? (That's a bit expensive,
> isn't it?) Vundaag' kümt Vadder trügg, ne, Oma? (Dad will
> come home today, won't he,
> Gramma?)
> Tou dummerhaftig, ne? ((It's) Really stupid, ain't it?)
>
> Hamburg Missingsch:
> Dascha man 'n büschen teua, nä?  (That's a bit expensive,
> isn't it?) Heude kommt Pappa wieda, nä, Oma? (Dad will come
> home today, won't he,
> Gramma?)
> Zu blöde, nä? ((It's) Really stupid, ain't it?)
>
> Does this ring familiar to Afrikaans ears?  How about the
> ears of the Low Franconian areas?
>
> In some contexts it's similar to "..., huh?_ in some English
> dialects, I suppose.

Sure we do. And even though it comes in many varieties, most of them (if not
all) have developed from "niet-waar" I read somewhere.
In Brabantish it will usually sound like "newaa", "ewaa", "waa", "naa" or
plain "è". Western Flemish usually has "wè" here. Would love to know where
English "huh", Canadian "hey" and French "hein" stem from, in this
respect...even though the last one could be off-topic...if so, sorry.

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Thanks, Luc.

OK, at this juncture it's about time to let everyone else in on the fact
that _nicht wahr?_, _niet waar_ etc. literally mean "not true?"

> Would love to know where English "huh", Canadian "hey" and French "hein"
stem
> from, in this respect...even though the last one could be off-topic...if
so, sorry.

I may be wrong here, but I've always thought of them as being "glorified
grunts" inviting agreement, a step below "..., right?"

Which takes me (not so elegantly) over to the widely used versatile
Australian expression "struth" (pronounced like "truth" with an "s" in
front, the "s", however, being pronounced as something between "s" and "sh"
by many (at least in Western Australia)).  I have never been able to
understand the full extent of its use, though I have a general idea and used
the expression myself while living in Australia.  (I won't even as much as
*try* using it here in the States, for that would *really* come across as
"alien.")

Some say this expression started off as "(this/it is) God's truth," namely
as a type of oath emphasizing the veracity of one's story.  (Alternatively,
you can say "Fair dinkum," but I feel this expression has begun to fade
away, sounds just too "Ocker" to many.)  You can still say "Struth!" after
telling an incredible-sounding story or if you read doubt or disbelief in
your audience's faces.  The other major use I have observed is emphasizing a
reprimand, for instance, "Stop that, Pete! Struth!", or just "Struth,
Pete!", something like "Really ...!" or "You're impossible!"  You can also
use "Struth!" in the sense of "(Oh,) Please!" or "Give me a break!" to
express disagreement.  I think you can furthermore use "Struth ..." to
placate someone's burst of anger, also in the sense of "Give me a break!" or
"Come one now!"  I'm sure there's more of this, and our friends in and from
Australia can elaborate.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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