LL-L "Idiomatica" 2004.07.29 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2004.07.29 (03) [E]

Ron wrote:
> Does any of you have any new spin on this?  Perhaps you can think of
related
> expressions or of other types of expressions in which place names are used
> (in which case I would be most interested in Lowlands place names, since I
> always love to find out about older connections within the Lowlands).

Well, there are many such expressions in German, and they're very probably
the same in the local version of Lower Saxon.

Most prominently, in Southern Lower Saxony, a person whose dead or a thing
that is lost or broken is "über'n Deister" or, in Platt, "över'n Deister".
The "Deister" is a low mountain range just south of Hannover, and east of
the Weser river.

Then, of course, there's the universal "über'n Jordan", meaning dead.

Then there's "ab nach Kassel" (a largish town in Northern Hesse), meaning
"get thee off to Kassel", or: "get lost!".

Then there's "ab nach Rostock" (a suburb of Göttingen) and "ab nach
Wunstorf" (north of Hannover), and probably several more; those place names
indicate where the nearest psychiatric clinic is, in the sense of "you're
crazy - go get yourself checked in!".

Gabriele Kahn

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2004.07.29 (03) [E]

Dear Ron,

Subject: Etymology

> I'm wondering about place names occurring in idiomatic expressions.  Here
is
> an example from Lowlands Saxon (Low German): _na Holland (gaan)_ (<na
> Holland (gahn)> "to go to Holland") or _na Rötterdam (gaan)_ (<na
Rötterdam
> (gahn)> "to go to Rotterdam") meaning 'to die'; e.g., _dey sünd al lang na
> Holland/Rötterdam_ 'they have been dead for a long time'.

I wonder now if we are now wandering into the realm of myth? However, is it
not true that some Northwest European Teutones attributed to the Abode of
the Dead a location in the West over the Sea?
I remember reading somewhere the old tale that some families that fished the
North Sea had another burden, & a fisherman might be summoned at night to
ferry a passenger, or more, sometimes many more than his boat should
support, to some shore across the water. & he would beach on a strand that
was not there in daylight, his passengers disembark, & leave him to return
home, in far less time than would be the case if he had crossed over to
Norfolk, for example.

& then again, could this be a punning or alliterative euphemism? _na Heiland
(gaan)_

Yrs,
Mark

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Thanks, Gabriele and Mark!

Gabriele:

> Most prominently, in Southern Lower Saxony, a person whose dead or a thing
> that is lost or broken is "über'n Deister" or, in Platt, "över'n Deister".
> The "Deister" is a low mountain range just south of Hannover, and east of
> the Weser river.

Actually, I have heard this saying used farther up north as well, and I
always wondered what this Deister thing was, not making the connection ...
duh.

We also say _över d'n dyk_ (<över'n Diek>) literally "over/across the dyke,"
but I believe this is used more in the sense of escaping or of being lost,
such as _hey is över d'n dyk_ (<He is över'n Diek>) 'he
disappeared/escaped'.  Does anyone know if you can use it to mean
'disappear' in reference to things, and if it, too, can mean 'to die'?

> Then there's "ab nach Kassel" (a largish town in Northern Hesse), meaning
> "get thee off to Kassel", or: "get lost!".

Yes, I know that one too.

> Then there's "ab nach Rostock" (a suburb of Göttingen) and "ab nach
> Wunstorf" (north of Hannover), and probably several more; those place
names
> indicate where the nearest psychiatric clinic is, in the sense of "you're
> crazy - go get yourself checked in!".

In Hamburg we (used to?) say the same with Ossentoll/Ochsenzoll (lit.
"Ox(en)-Toll"), a part of town that used to house the most important mental
health institution.  (Does it still?)  It's still where the most important
health care and research clinics of all sorts are.  (Isn't the university
hospital there?)  One of our sayings was _Ossentoll röppt_ / _Ochsenzoll
ruft_ "O. is calling" when we considered someone to be "over the edge" or
just about to "flip."

Mark, more fanciful than ever yet charming as always:

> & then again, could this be a punning or alliterative euphemism? _na
Heiland
> (gaan)_

Now there's a thought!  Or more archaically, _nâ deme Heliande (gân)_.

:-)

Groete,
Reinhard/Ron

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