LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.06.09 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E/S]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> I cannot stress enough the importance of exposure to languages that are
> closely related to one's own.  Not only does it train one in understanding
> other language varieties but it also enhances one's understanding of one's
> own language variety and its ancestors.  Here on Lowlands-L we have
> opportunities to practise this.  Particularly those bi- or trilingual
> postings are no doubt very useful and are lapped up by many on this list.
> So keep them coming, folks!

Michty me, my havers in twae langages, like ane's no eneuch?

Well, you asked for it...

> (Of course, I cannot stress enough the importance of learning languages
that
> are "unrelated" or are distantly related to one's own, for that teaches
one
> even more about one's own.  But that's a second step, another trip and
> another story ...)

[English below]

I dout ye'v a road yit afore ye'r a marrae for me thare, Ron! Hiv ye tried a
langage wi nae phones ava?  :)

Ye'll ken, bein linguists aa, that the smaaer the langage (in terms o the
wirds intil't) the mair productive the lexicon haes tae be. In a muckle
langage like English, for example, the stechie lexicon's gey an lairge, an
the productive lexicon's gey smaa. Scots, on the ither haun, haes a smaaer
stechie lexicon (at least it dis whan it comes tae the wirds fowk uizes),
but's mair productive. For example, whaur in English ye micht spaek aboot a
langage haein a "vocabulary", in Scots a body's mair like juist caa this
"the wird's intil" the langage. Fowk maks up mair in Scots, whaur wirds in
English is creat aforehaun.

But BSL daes this a lot mair than aither Scots or English. Bi English or
even Scots, the arna mony wirds (signs) in BSL ava. Mair like, the'r a
muckle rowth o signs for things that's juist made up as ye gaun alang. Sae
we'r aye rinnin intae lairners that spiers, "What's the sign for
'skateboard'?" or "What's the sign for 'tin can'"? an nae maiter what guid
ye micht be at the BSL, this haes got ye ficklt. Syne ye think, "What wad ye
_want_ a sign for 'skateboard' for?" Gin ye ken BSL fine it's obvious hou
tae produce the richt sign for it athoot kennin it!

I dout if oor Scots writers kent the BSL they'd lairn better thair ain
langage an aa. Insteed o greetin that the'r nae wird for this, that an the
ither in Scots, an makkin up rideeclous "inkhorn" terms, thay'd lift the
idea o some langages haein less wirds and mair o thair ain weys o makkin new
wirds nor ithers, an mak better uise o the productive featurs o the langage.

[English]

I reckon you've some way to go before you can impress me with the range of
languages you know, Ron! Have you tried any with no phones at all?  :)

Being linguists, you'll know that the smaller a langage (in terms of
vocabulary) the more productive the lexicon has to be. In a big language
like English, for example, the fixed lexicon's very large, and the
productive lexicon quite small. Scots, on the other hand, has a smaller
fixed lexicon (at least Scots speakers' active vocabulary is small), but
there's a lot more language production involved in the act of speaking or
writing Scots. For example, where in English you might say a language has a
"vocabulary", in Scots it's more likely one would talk of "the wirds in" the
language. Scots speakers make up more phrases as they go along, in place of
what in English would be part of the fixed lexicon.

But BSL carries this to extremes. Compared to English or even Scots, there
are very few words (signs) in BSL. Rather, many signs are just made up on
the spot. So we're always meeting learners who ask, "What's the sign for
'skateboard'?"  or "What's the sign for 'tin can'"? and however accomplished
you might be in BSL, you're stumped. Then you find yourself thinking, "Why
would you _want_ a sign for 'skateboard'?" If you know your BSL you'll know
how easy it is to produce the correct sign without prior knowledge!

I suppose if our Scots writers knew BSL they'd understand their own language
better. Instead of complaining that there's no word for such and such in
Scots, and making up ridiculous "inkhorn" terms, they'd appreciate that some
langages have a smaller vocabulary and a wider range of native production
techniques than others, and make better use of the productive features of
the language itself.

(But as always, I don't think I can keep up these bilingual texts - I'd have
said a lot more in this post if I didn't have to say it all twice!  :)

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Sandy:

[English below]

> I dout ye'v a road yit afore ye'r a marrae for me thare, Ron! Hiv ye tried
a
> langage wi nae phones ava?  :)

Dang! Whit a gunk! Pleasin ye is ower sair, Sandy! Bit it's guid advisement,
gien that ma ears 's gittin iller.

> I reckon you've some way to go before you can impress me with the
> range of languages you know, Ron! Have you tried any with no phones
> at all?  :)

Darn! What a let-down! It's too hard pleasing you, Sandy! But it's good
advice, given that my ears are steadily going downhill.

Reinhard/Ron

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