LL-L "Etymology" 2004.06.14 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 14.JUN.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.06.13 (03) [E]

To: Ron and John
Re: Being crook.

> .  In American English you talk, for instance, about "crooked cops,"
namely
> about corrupt police officers, or about something "crooked" someone (a
> "crook") has been up to, namely something illegal or otherwise contrary to
> regulations or expectations.
>
> I have a hunch that this "crook(ed)" started off in the sense of "bent."
> (Remember the noun "crook" for the bent shepherd's staff, later the
bishop's
> staff.)  So, something "bent" or "crook(ed)" is not "straight," is thus
not
> right or normal according to this line of cultural imagery.

Whilst agreeing with most of what Ron has to say about "crook", I think that
Australians too mostly use crooked when speaking of bent cops. A crook cop
is a
sick policeman, a crooked cop is a corrupt policeman. As a current resident
in
Melbourne, I read daily reports in the media about the latter. A quick
Google
search for crook cops gives 4 results, for crooked cops 796. Perhaps
dishonest
policemen rarely get ill.

Apparently there are a number of possible sources for crook(ed): the Old
Norse
"krokr" hook, corner, the Norman "crique", meaning creek, the French "croc"
for
Shepherd's crook  and the O.H.G. "krapmhe" cramp, spasm, related to "kramph"
bent, crooked" amongst others. They all seem to relate to bent or unwell.

But I have no idea why "going crook at" means getting angry with in
Australian
English.

Best wishes
Andrys Onsman

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: Etymology

> From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Also, Ron, is _krank_ used in Low Saxon alongside cognates of _sick_ ?
>
In my Low Saxon dialect the word krank is sometimes used to mean ill.
But usually the word seyk (sik, with superlength i) is used.

Also, the Dutch dictionary Van Dale lists krank as meaning ill.

regards,
Henry

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From: Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
Subject: Etymology

>From John Duckworth and Ron Hahn:
While we are on the subject of being ill, has anyone any idea where the
Australian slang word _crook_ meaning 'not well in health' came from.

Hello Ron and John,
Ron you seemed to answer the original question on crook very well. It has
had all the meanings and connotations you described. The only thing I would
add is the change in usage over time. Crook was very commonly used in the
1960's, to the 1980's and Bent started to be used more generally after this
time. The usage of bent seemed to me to be used by the drug using sub
culture which was very prevalent in the 1980's here in Australia after the
initial Hippie sub culture (post Vietnam war ) of the 1970's. A bit of a
generalisation I know but an observation none the less. I think it was more
of a generational thing ( the oldies and yobbos used crook while the kids
used bent) but both had the meaning of "off the straight and narrow" to use
a colloquial term.
Cheers
Peter Snepvangers
snepvangers at optushome.com.au

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the very interesting responses (above), guys!  And great to have
you back, Henry!

I wrote:

> German _krank_ 'ill', 'unwell', too, originally meant "bent" or "crooked,"
> or simply "not straight," is related to words like _Kringel_ 'squiggle',
> '(edible) ring', and Lowlands Saxon (Low German) _kring_ (<Kring> ~
<Krink>
> [krI.N(k)]) 'circle' (> 'club', 'association').

I should add that English _cranc_ > "crank" is suspected to have been
derived from the Old English verb _crincan_ (thus morphophonemically
/krink-/) 'to fall in battle', originally meaning 'to curl up'.  Also note
the specialized nautical meaning of the adjective "crank": 'liable to
capsize', suspected to be derived from the earlier meaning 'weak', 'shaky',
'unstable'.  So "crook(ed)" and "crank(y)" seem to have a lot in common.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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