LL-L "Morphology" 2004.06.23 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Stella en Henno <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.06.22 (01) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Morphology
>
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> Should any of you be alive/awake, I would like to revisit the topic of
> plural morphology and invite you to give me (us) some input from the point
> of view of various Lowlands language varieties.  In particular, I am
> currently interested in apparently irregular plural marking of nouns.
>
> As for double plural marking, so far I can come up with a few examples
from
> Dutch, Afrikaans and Lowlands Saxon (Low German), but I am sure that there
> are other varieties with this type of phenomenon as well.
>
> Dutch:
> schoen [sxuːn] 'shoe'
> schoenen [sxuːnə(n)] 'shoes'
>
> It appears that the old plural form (with /+ən/ was turned into a singular
> form, and, etymologically speaking, the new plural form contains another
> plural-marking suffix (/+ə(n)).
>
> Similarly, Afrikaans:
> skoen [skuːn] 'shoe'
> skoene [skuːnə] 'shoes'
>
> Theoretically (*), this ought to have been as follows:
> Dutch:
>    *schoe [sxuː] 'shoe'
>    *schoeën [sxuːə(n)] or schoen [sxuːn] 'shoes'
> Afrikaans:
>    *skoe [skuː] 'shoe'
>    *skoeë [skuːə] 'shoes' (or perhaps *skoes [skuːs])

In Westerlauwer Frisian this is
singular "skoech" [sku:x] (note the archaic [x]-sound, which is suggested by
German Schuh
(which also indeed (in Old German) had a guttural soud here; is there
another non-Frisian
Germanic variety that preserves the guttural here? Also, eg., W-Frisian has
"( hy) sjocht" for "(he)sees", also preserving an old guttural most
varieties seem to have lost..)
plural "skuon" [skwon] (< *skoen = [sku. at n] with breaking).

> Cf. "regular"
> Englisch: shoe -> shoes
> Scots: shae -> shuin (originally regular with /+n/ plural)
Is this change merely orthographic or does it reflect an old umlauting (as
below)?

> German: Schuh -> Schuhe
> Yiddish: שו šu [ʃu] ~ [ʃi] -> שוך šux [ʃux] ~ [ʃix]
>
> Lowlands Saxon (Low German) has the same pattern as that of German, but
the
> main vowel underwent umlauting, and in most dialects the final vowel has
> been dropped:
> schou (<Schoh>) [sɣɔˑ ] ~ [sx ˑ ] ~ [ ɔˑ ] ~ [ aˑ ] 'shoe'
> sch y (<Schöh>) [sɣœːɪ] ~ [sxœːɪ] ~ [ʃœːɪ] ~ [ʃɔːɪ] 'shoes'
> derived from schöye ['sɣœˑɪe] ~ ['sxœˑɪe] ~ ['ʃœˑɪe] ~ ['ʃɔˑɪe] 'shoes'
>
The "child", children (also a double one in English) is not present in
W-Frisian
as the word here is "bern" [bE:n], which has "non-marking", i.e. also the
plural is
bern. The same happens with the word "skiep" [ski. at p] = sheep.
Also (with numbers, as in Dutch) with "jier" ([i. at r]): "twa jier" (but the
plural
"jierren" [jIr at n] does exist: eg. "yn dy jierren gie dat sa" (= in those
years it was like that ).
Dutch has the same "twee jaar" eg.

> The opposite of this, I suppose, is apparent "non-marking" of plural
forms,
> namely zero marking (/+0/).  In English, this tends to occur where
plurality
> denotes (or denoted) uncountable or uncounted mass.  (Examples of mass
nouns
> would be "sand," "water," "people," and "cattle.") E.g.,
>
> English:
> fish | fish (not *"fishes," at least not in this sense)
> herring | herring (not *"herrings," at least not in this sense)
W-Frisian does have "fisken" en "hjerringen" or "hjerrings" (a mostly
West-East difference)
> sheep | sheep (never *"sheeps")
[snip]
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Groetenis,

Henno Brandsma

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Henno:

> Also (with numbers, as in Dutch) with "jier" ([i. at r]): "twa jier" (but the
> plural
> "jierren" [jIr at n] does exist: eg. "yn dy jierren gie dat sa" (= in those
> years it was like that ).
> Dutch has the same "twee jaar" eg.

Also In Lowlands Saxon (Low German):

eyn jaar (one year)
twey jaar (two years)
etc.

But I feel that with 100, 1000, etc., you could say either:

hunnerd jaar ~ hunnerd jaren (100 years)
dusend jaar ~ dusend jaren (1000 years)

Otherwise you use the plural form:

In dey (daar) jaren is dat so west.
'In those years (= days) it was like that.'

In dey (daar) jaren güng dat so.
This, literally translated from Henno's Westerlauwer Frisian example ("In
those (there) years went it/that so"), could mean the same, but to me the
primary meaning is "In those days is was all right (= passable,
acceptable)."

This applies to measures also; e.g., _vyv pund meel_ 'two pounds of flour',
_Hest vöftayn mark by dy?_ 'Do you have fifteen marks on you?' (not _punds_
and _marks_).

Isn't there a thing like this in some English and in Scots dialects also,
something like "two year ago," "five pound of flour," "Do you have fifteen
pound on you?"?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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