LL-L "Names" 2004.05.03 (10) [E/S]

Mon May 3 18:48:19 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Names" [E]

> From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.05.02 (03) [E]
>
> The misconception is that one dialect in the same language can override
> another. If the Lowlands dialect understands "Scotch" as relating to a
> liquid and not to people, why shouldn't the referred-to people not
> insist that other dialects of the same language follow suit and not
> confuse them with a liquid? Seems to me little to ask.

Oh wait - you think "Scotch" is whisky? In which case I'm only 74% Scotch
:)

No, the word is much more versatile than this, referring, even in the books
of the strictest Scottish primary school teachers, also to tomatoes, tape
(as a brand name) and a certain kind of mist. It's really just an adjective
and in Scotland is generally accepted for these kinds of things, though like
I said, some Scots speakers simply use the word to mean "Scottish".

The use of this word by Scottish writers covers all sorts of grounds, from
scholarly essays to Edwardian sixpenny novelettes, from the Borders to the
"Doric", from Burns to McGonagall:

A wee bit thocht frae a wee Scots lass
To help you while the lang oors pass;
A wee drap love frae a wee Scots body-
It's as guid for the he'rt as guid Scotch toddy!

- from Random Rhymes, by "Rab O'Reekie".

Kirk of the Covenant, Kirk of the Free,
Scotch Presbyterian Kirk now for me,

- from "The Braes of the Carse" by Charles Spence

"Weel spoke my partner," cried the De'il,
"Nocht beats a gude Scotch dance or reel:"

- from Maggie o' the Moss, by Robert Kerr

Sheep-head kail was countit a denty,
    Scotch haggis, the king o' a' meats;

- from Kilwuddie, by James Nicholson

We blithely listened to their screeds o' what they'd dune and seen
On this same nicht, lang years ago, - the auld Scotch Hallowe'en.

- from Hallowe'en Memories, by Robert McLean Calder

Then Dod sang fine "The Auld Scotch Sangs,'
=A lady, "Annie Lowrie";

- from Sangs o' Bairns and Hame.

Methinks some auld Scotch proverb says
    "As ae door steeks anither opens;"

- from As Ae Door Steeks, by Alex Rodger

Then words would pass we dare not name -
Dark epithets of sin and shame,
And vengeful threats and foul reproach,
In neither English, Erse, nor Scotch,

- from John o Arnha', by Geaorge Beattie

WE'LL turn't again in guid braid Scotch,
    Gin ye'll but lend yer lugs-
A glint o' sunshine in the hairt
    Is worth a kist o' drugs.

- from Auld Saws in New Scots Sangs, by T Whyte Paterson

That's yin o' the things the country bates the toon for, guid Scotch music.

- from Betty's Trip tae Edinbury, by "Black Spider".

A SCOTCH FAIRMER'S PRAYER - title of a poem by George Abel in "Wylins fae My
Wallet".

Then ye should ha'e heard Walter's wife; roarin' at Maggie in washin'-hoose
Scotch, ca'in' her for this and that, and shakin' her kneive in her face.

- from "The Amateur Barber", by Joe Corrie.

Also, Shakespeare and Sir Walter Scott,
Which by Englishmen and Scotchmen will neer be forgot.

- from Jottings of New York, by William McGonagall.

The essays by Scots scholars in "The Scottish Tongue", including some
well-known writers in Scots such as John Buchan and J M Bulloch, involves
copious use of the word "Scotch". Here's and example of it being used along
with "Scots":

"Of the language of the Scots, which meant originally Irishmen, the Scotch
Gaelic is a more broken-down form than its mother language which survives in
western Ireland.  What the language of the Picts was we hardly know, for
their inscriptions, as Andrew Lang said, if correctly transcribed, seem to
represent a language which is hardly human.  When we talk of Scotch or
Scots, we think only of the dialect of English which has gradually spread
until it has almost covered the whole land, and yet outside the Lothians,
which the English early colonized, it spread but gradually and slowly from
little town to little town all along the coast, round the headlands of
Fifeshire, and slowly up by the bays of Forfar to Aberdeen and thence to
Banff, Cullen, Elgin, and Inverness."

Oh, and so on! But culminating in one by the greatest of all:

My coat and my vest, they are Scotch o' the best,
    O' pairs o' guid breeks I ha'e twa, man,
And stockings and pumps to put on my stumps,
    And ne'er a wrang steek in them a', man.

- from The Tarbolton Lassies, by Robert Burns.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Names" [E]

> From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Names" 2004.05.03 (03) [E]
>
> > Sandy says:
> >
> > > Ignorant in what way? Why is it ignorant to say "Scotch"?
>
> Isn't anybody finally going to tell me what "Scotch tomatoes" are?
>
> Ignorantly,
> Gabriele Kahn

A strain of tomatoes grown in Scotland - more like Dutch tomatoes than
English.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

"_Forms_: *Scots* (the descendant of the historical Sc form) survived till
_19_ only in certain locutions, but has gradually re-established itself as
preferable to _Scotch_ in general contexts among Scottish speakers when
speaking Eng.  *Scottish* (the full Eng form) was used in general contexts
by anglicizing Scots (_17_-_18_); then retained in formal contexts stressing
national or historical aspects (_la18-_): _'Scottish burgh'_, _'Scottish
crown'_.  *Scotch* (the contracted English form and the prevailing for in
England _17-_) was adopted into Sc and was the prevailing Sc form
(_la18-19_), is still the regular vernacular form but is now acceptable in
Scottish Standard English only in certain compounds: _'Scotch broth'_,
_'Scotch whisky'_.

Robinson, Mairi, _ed._, _The Concise Scots Dictionary_, Ediburgh: Chambers,
1985, 1996

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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