LL-L "Names" 2004.05.05 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 05.MAY.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Daniel Prohaska <Daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names"

Gavin Falconer Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net wrote:

<I wouldn't say that "Sassenach" is nearly as pejorative or racist as
the
<other word mentioned.  It often crops up in English parodies of the
Scots
<and, given the cultural fixation of, and negative attitudes towards,
<distinctively Scottish speech, may even provoke a kind of kailyard
cringe <in some people.

<One interesting point that few people pick up on is that, although
<Gaelic-speaking Highlanders used the word "Sasunnach" as an insult for
<Lowlanders, there was no Saxon element in Lowland Scotland, since it
was
<settled by Angles.  It's probably akin to the use of "Erse" ('Irish')
by
<Lowlanders for Gaelic, both words implying that the culture thus
<denominated is in some way less Scottish than one's own and harking
back to
<extraterritorial origins in Northumbria and Ireland respectively.  The
<Highlanders would have called themselves "Gaidheil", with "Eireannach"
<being a purely geographical word.
<All the best,

<Gavin

Dear Gavin and others,

All the Celtic languages use the words "Saxon" (in its respective forms)
for "English" whether they are talking about actual Saxons or whether
they are referring Angles or any other Ingvaeonic tribe that settled in
Britain around the turn of the 6th century.

It is a bit like the persistent myth that "Welsh" meant "foreigner" in
Old English. It is true that the word did have this original meaning,
but it had acquired the meaning 'Celt' or 'romanised Celt' long before
the North Sea Germanic tribes departed for Britain. This is the reason
why the Romance languages adjacent to certain German dialects are still
referred to (dialectally) as 'Welsch'.

Dan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Dan wrote above):

> This is the reason
> why the Romance languages adjacent to certain German dialects are still
> referred to (dialectally) as 'Welsch'.

Hi, Dan!  How're you doing?

And in extension _Welsch_ came to denote 'incomprehensible language' or
'gobbledigook' in general.  By itself it is no longer or rarely used in that
sense, but it is frozen in the word _Kauderwelsch_ 'incomprehensible
language,' 'gobbledigook', and _Rotwelsch_, the name of a "secret jargon"
once used by social fringe groups (Yiddish, Romany and Romance elements on a
German base), often applied to any "secret jargon."

Because of this name assignment, German had to come up with a separate name
for "Welsh": _Walisisch_.

Change of topic ...

I wonder why in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) one of the words for
'old-fashioned' is _old-vranksch_ (<oldfranksch>), literally "Old Frankish."
Does anyone know?

NB: The Saxons (who had no royalty and had no intention to acquire any, nor
did they want any part of the Franks' new religion) gave Frankish power
under "Old Charlie" (i.e., Charles the "Great," a.k.a. Charlemagne) a heck
of a hard time bringing them into the Frankish fold.  It took decades of
battles and mass executions, and even after official "pacification" and
Christianization there were sporadic anti-Frankish skirmishes and
in-your-face reversion to pre-Christian practices among Saxons (including
the use of symbols such as the crossed horse heads you still find on
gabletops of Saxon farmhouses).  So why would the Saxon language come up
with "Old Frankish" instead of *"Old Saxon" for "old-fashioned"?  Might it
be a German or Dutch loan?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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