LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.05.07 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: jmaguire at pie.xtec.es <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.05.06 (03) [A/E]

> Mike, Hi!
>Catalan: I'm sad to hear you tell me this. Can you possibly be
wrong? I
> have heard that the thrust of economic development in that
whole region is
> powered by Catalan speakers; so much so that Japanese
businessmen recommend
> to their colleagues that they learn Catalan. As they say,
from time to time
> the conversation breaks out in Catalan, & THAT'S when it gets
interesting.
> Mark

Hello All,

I caught the tail-end of the thread on minortiy languages and
understand from Mark's remarks (above=) that Mike has referrred
to some sort of loss in Catalan.

I live in Catalonia and teach in the eduction system here and
any reference to Cataln being lost is a moot point, probably
more political than anything else. It is the vehicular language
throught the administrative and education system in Catalonia,
The Balearic Islands and Andorra and has equal stance with
Castillian in the Community of Valencia. Geographically this
means that it is an official language from the Pyrenees down
the whole Mediterranean coast, including the offshore islands
like Ibiza and Mallorca.
There are several TV channels in these regions that broadcast
exclusively in Catalan, not to mention radios, some catering
for minority tastes like 24 hours of classical music.
(Recommendable when stressed.)
Just this morning the radio reported that Catalan would be
promoted as an E.U. language.

Rather than dying, it is going through a revival. I wish
Lowland Scots had the same forward impulse.

Regards,

Tom

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From: Montgomery Michael <ullans at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.05.03 (03) [E]

Dear All

Sorry if I seem to be full of cold water these days,
but despite the persistent idea (circulated for over a
century), there is little basis for calling southern
mountain speech "Elizabethan".  There are a few usages
that people hear often in the mountains and read also
in Shakespeare (e.g. "afeared"), and these sustain the
belief, but most of the older element in Appalachian
speech was commonplace in the U.S. in colonial days.
Interestingly, other varieties of North American
English, such as spoken on the Outer Banks Islands of
North Carolina and Newfoundland in Canada, are also
frequently labeled "Elizabethan".  Perhaps this is
because they are just noticeably conservative, but
part of the story is also that these varieties are
spoken by socio-economically and regionally peripheral
cultures that don't get little respect (except
sometimes for their music and story-telling).
Claiming their speech to be Elizabethan is a romantic
idea that their advocates and insiders use to lend
them status.  Many times I've heard educators,
tourists, and mountain citizens themselves say
something like "People in the mountains speak pure
Elizabethan English, but they have have no grammar",
which illustrates the schizophrenia speakers often
have about themselves.

For a more extended discussion of the entire subject,
readers might want to find a little essay I wrote "In
the Appalachians They Speak like Shakespeare", which
appeared in a little book _Language Myths_ co-edited
by Laurie Bauer and Peter Trudgill.  It's a Penguin
paperback, so should not be hard to find.

Suffice it to say, then, that "Elizabethan" here is a
vague term that means basically "old-fashioned"; it
has little if any geographical reference to the
British Isles.

Michael Montgomery

> From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.05.01 (02)
> [E]
>
> Dear All:
>     I'm with Michael Montgomery here. I have long
> heard & read that in the
> remoter recesses of the Appalachians a last survival
> of near-Elisabethan
> dialect is still spoken. Now, if that isn't Southern
> English, then what is?
> I do not recall what authorities were cited, but
> there must have been some
> scholarly motivation for this thesis. It is only
> since my discovery of
> L-Lowlands that I have read of any alternatives.
>     For my part, Child's ballads collected in that
> region sound to me
> distinctly 'Border'. But what do I know, I'm not a
> Scholar.
>     Yrs,
> Mark

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