LL-L "History" 2004.11.19 (05) [E]

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L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.19 (04) [E]

Ron schreev:
>
> Henry (above):
>
>>>There was a Hanseatic _kantor_ (office, burea) in London,
>>
>>Interesting, the word I mean.
>
> Not the rest of the stuff I wrote, huh?  ;-)
>
Oh, that too, but as I was talking about the word, I thought I should
clarify that. I liked the bit of history too though.

>>What do you call it in North Saxon nowadays?
>
> It's mostly _konto(o)r_ or _buyro_ (<Büro>).
 >
In Twente it's pronounced as "ketoo(r)"

> (Doesn't it come from _comtoir_?)
 >
I have no idea.

Henry

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

I'm not sure if this is about "Etymology" or "History" ... probably both.

Henry (above):

> > > There was a Hanseatic _kantor_ (office, burea) in London,
> > >
> > Interesting, the word I mean.
>
> > (Doesn't it come from _comtoir_?)
> >
> I have no idea.

It all goes back to Latin _computatorium_ (_computātōrium_) "place at which
(ac)counting takes place," from the verb _computāre_ 'to (ac)count', 'to
compute'.

Apparently, the Hanseatic _konto(o)r_ ~  _kanto(o)r_ was an accounting
office, at least started as such.  It could be a major operation and a big
deal if established as a branch office in a trading port that was not
officially a part of the Hanseatic League (which began as a mercantile
anti-piracy alliance).  London was one of the major places for this,
permitting toll-free status (which the port of Hamburg has till this day).

<quote> http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0846602.html
The Steelyard, also known as German House, was a walled community with its
own warehouses, weighhouse, church, offices, and residential quarters;
German merchants had occupied it since 1320. English merchants, organized
after 1370, exerted great pressure on the monarchs to revoke Hanseatic
privileges. In 1597, Queen Elizabeth I issued an edict expelling the German
merchants from England, and in 1598 the Steelyard was closed.
</quote>

Other sources say that the Steelyard began earlier, in 1250.  Its former
site is today's Cannon Stree Railway Station.

Novgorod (then probably more Finnic than Russian in the common populace),
Bruges and Bergen were other such settlements.  The main articles traded
were furs, hides, wax, honey, flax and tar in Novgorod, and wool and linnen
in Bruges, while Bergen provided preserved fish from all over Norway in
return for grains, flour, weapons, textiles, salt and malt.

I am under the impression that these offices grew into something more than
mere accounting offices, that they functioned as something like Hanseatic
embassies, if not strongholds or political "pressure points," outside the
Hanseatic domain (which included most important Baltic Sea coast ports and
had major centers in Lübeck, Hamburg and Bremen, with branches far and wide,
also in what are now the Eastern Netherlands).  In Hanseatic ports they
gained much power and in many cases held sway with mercantile _hauteur_,
their rule often being unpopular and resented.  This happened in Bergen,
which saw quite a lot of intermittent unrest; yet Hanseatic influences
continued even after the demise of the _kantor_ of well over 200 years was
shut down in 1560, where Hanseatic influences still continued into the 18th
century.

The Saxon language was used throughout the Hanseatic League domain, if not
as first language then as a mercantile lingua franca in contact with German,
Low Franconian, Danish, Swedish, Scanian, Finnish, Estonian, Livian,
Kashubian (Pomeranian), Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian and possibly Prussian
and Polabian.  Outside the domain it rubbed shoulders with English, Danish,
Norwegian, Dutch/Flemish and Russian, probably also with Baltic Coast Finnic
(and its close relatives), Finnish, Estonian, Livian, Karelian,
Ingrian/Izhor and Vod).

Back to etymology, _kanto(o)r_ ~ _konto(o)r_ is related to English
"counter."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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