LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.30 (05) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 30.NOV.2004 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Proverbs" 2004.11.30 (02) [E]

Dear Klaus, Dave, Sandy, Ron:

Subject: Proverbs

This is a promising string, I'll join it below:

> >> 3.  An empty stomach makes the kail [soup] excellent.
> >
> > Is this really soup ?? I know kail as cabbage (even in Yorkshire) or is
> > it cabbage soup?

> Which reminds me of the doubts I had when I read this -- plus the
following:

> If kail is something other than cabbage, is there a possible gypsy
> influence? I'm still looking for contemporary 14-year-olds who use this,
> but in my circles and at that age we said "kahlen" for eating (Stuttgart
> region). Spelled in English, "cawler". This is supposed to be "jenisch,"
> the language of traveling hawkers, and is practically identical to "kol"
> (my made-up spelling) for "food" in some Indian languages.

3.  A teem wime maks the kail fine.

> >  3.  An empty stomach makes the kail [soup] excellent.

    I thought I followed this expression without difficulty. I still do. A
'Kailyard' in Northern English is a 'cabbage patch'. Kail is just their way
of pronouncing what we in Afrikaans & others accross the Channel call
'kool', & other like-sounding & differently spelled terms: There are related
words in English, 'coleslaw'  - (Afrikaans 'Koolslaai') or English 'cabbage
salad'; 'cauliflower' - (Afr. 'blomkool') or Eng. 'flower of the cabbage';
'kohlrabi' - (Afr. 'raapkool') or Eng. 'turnip cabbage'

    This entire family of vegetables takes work: Work to cultivate, work to
prepare, work to appreciate, & all too often, work to suffer in polite
company. As I undertood this old slaw - I mean old saw, 'an empty stomach
makes cabbage tasty'. This is true; in fact I might add it is the only
condition in which it applies. As we say in Afrikaans, 'Honger is die beste
sous' -' Hunger is the best sauce'.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: Tom Carty <cartyweb at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Proverbs" 2004.11.30 (02) [E]

As I understand it, Kale is not a word for cabbage in itself, but for a
variety of cabbage.

But our English is heavily influenced by Hiberno-English / Ullans, so maybe
its just us.

Anyone else in Ireland call a variety of cabbage as Kale?

www.teanganua.pro.ie

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Proverbs

My etymological notes (not claimed to be authoritative):

cole, kale, kail (kal, col, cole):
OEng cáwel > cáwl > cál
OSax kôl (> kaal <Kahl>, <Kohl>), MidDu _côle_ (> kool), ONor kál (> kál,
kål), OGerm chôlo (> Kohl), Gael cál, OFr chol (> chou), etc.
A general name for various species of _Brassica_ ("cabbage plants"), in
English now especially:

(1) "rape" (a.k.a. colza)
Brassica napus, Brassica rapa
Du koolzaad, LS raps, kaalsaad, Germ Raps, Fr colza, Sp colza, Por colza,
Pol rzepa, Cz řepka (olejka), Russ рапс, капуста полевая, сурепица, Hun
repce, Fin rapsi, Turk kolza, Ar سلجم لفت , Chin 油菜, Jap. 在来ムタネ, Kor 평지

(2) "(sea-)kale"
Crambe maritime
Du boerekool, LSax groynkool, Germ Grünkohl, Fr chou frisé, Sp col (rizada),
Por couve, repolho crespo, Pol kapusta włoska, Cz kapusta krmná, Russ
капуста кормовая, капуста огородная, капуста листовая, Hun tengeri káposzta,
kel, Fin merikaali, Turk kivircik lâhana, lâhana çorbasi, Ar لفت , Chin
ç„¡é ­ç”˜è—é¡ž,甘藍類蔬菜 (æ— å¤´ç”˜è“ç±»,甘蓝类蔬菜), Jap 葉牡丹, Kor 양배추의 일종
Scots: kail
cabbage, colewort; soup (generalized from "cabbage soup"?)

I understand that "kale" can denote "soup" in some dialects south of the
Scottish border as well.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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