LL-L "Grammar" 2004.09.29 (10) [A/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29.SEP.2004 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2004.09.29 (04) [A/D/E]

Haai almal,

Dankie, Mark vir jou verheldering op Ron se vrae.

Nog 'n paar punte:

>Loop, Ron, is heel breër 'n konsep as maar net 'run' of 'hurry up &---

Ja, soos in "go", of soos Mark se^:

>'Beweeg, roer, gaan'

>>Loop ga sit.
>>Ga loop sit.

>Sit: Do!

Or: /Go and go sit/

> > Loop ry nou!  [also in Johannesburg]
>Get going! (nie noodwendig 'n reis nie, maar enige tog, en met of sonder 'n
>tuig).

Also: "Toe, kry jou ry! (Get yourself going/off)

> > Ons gaan nou loop ry dorp toe.
>We shall now proceed townwards.

/We are going to go now to town/

> > Loop gaan lê.
> > Gaan loop lê nou!
Lie! (soos aan 'n hond gerig).

Both could also be directed to a child hanging around
and not going to bed. (Such as on the last evening of school holidays)

> > Kinders, gaan loop haal die eiers uit die neste.
Kids, go now, & fetch the eggs out of the nests.

> > Wat loop sit jy nou hier op my skoon lakens?
How dare you sit on my clean sheets?

Yes: How dare you go sit on my clean sheets?

> > Wat sit loop julle nou soontoe? Ons kon mos die kar gevat het!
Why must you walk thither? We could simply have gone by car!

> Does _loop_ here imply unexpected, unseemly or prohibited action?

No; coupled with 'sit' - instituted - in this context, it implies an action
carried out.

Here, I think "sit" implies inaction. i.e. slowing down the process of
moving
as "loop" denotes action which might be wrongful, as in:

Wat loop neuk jy met die kuikens? - Why do you bother the chicks?

> Wat kom julle so stadig hier aangesit?

Why must you hang around all the time? (Hierdie 'aangesit' is nader aan
'beset' in betekenis, - 'Besieged'.

"Aangesit" here means here 'to arrive'. It means dawdling rather than
getting
there on time.

Groete,
Elsie Zinsser

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2004.09.28 (06) [E]

R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote:
 >
> Henry:
>
>>"Ik sal eyns opstaon en wat ... halen".
>
> Not "Ik sal eyns gaon en wat ... haolen" as well?
>
Ach, natuyrlik, daet is ok möygelik.

> Interestingly, _gaan_ ('to go') can preceded an infinitive directly in
> phrases in which this is not applicable in German.
>
> G. Ich gehe essen.
> LS. Ik ga eten.
> "I'll go eat."
>
Dutch: Ik ga eten".
My LS: Ik gao aetten

> G. Ich gehe schlafen.
> LS *Ik ga slapen. (sounds wrong, "yellow")
> "I'll go to bed."
>
Dutch: Ik ga slapen

> alternative:
> G. Ich gehe zu Bett.
> LS. Ik ga na bed(de).
>
My LS: Ik gao naor bedde (or should that be spelt "berde"?)

> Are there other Lowlands language varieties that say the equivalent of
> _liggen gaan_ and _sitten gaan_?
>
Dutch.

regards,
Henry

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2004.09.28 (11) [A/E]

john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Henry wrote:
>
>>In Saxon you can easily say "Ik sal eyns opstaon en wat ... halen". <
>
> Perhaps Ron has already hinted at the following question, but what does
this
> Saxon mean?
>
It means "I'll get up and get some ...".

> BTW Big Bad Bryson says something like "We use the definite article
> differently in English. We say 'go to bed'. In other languages you have to
> say 'go to the bed'". So now you know.
>
I'm sorry, I don't understand. In Dutch you say "ga naar bed" and in
Saxon you say "gao nao bedde", without any article.

regards,
Henry

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Hi All, Hi John

John you wrote:

'A formation
which
I still hesitate about, however, is "There's" = "There
is" for "There
are".
"I should of gone" is unacceptable'

I'm surprised at you John - and you call yourself a
Londoner!! The two forms above are perfectly
acceptable in London dialect. When speaking I
consistently use There's and 'should of' (note the
'of' is pronounced /@v/ when followed by another verb
- so could be construed as a bad spelling of
'could've' but phrase finally it's a definite 'of'
(/Ov/) and not an 've (/@v/)). Nothing unacceptable
about it at all - just non-standard!

But I forgive you coming from Ilford, where you
obviously don't speak as proper as what us Woodford
Greeners do ;)

Gary

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