LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.15 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.APR.2005 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: Ian Pollock <ispollock at shaw.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.04.14 (01) [E]

Hehe, true, it's a little bizarre when people talk that way, but I
think cause and effect are a little mixed up here. People say that
because they're too lazy to insert the actual entities they're
discussing, but I don't think it's really affecting the language in any
huge way. We have the same thing happening here in Canada, often. In
fact I'd bet that most languages have some equivalent. In Russian it's
это самое ('EtV 'samojE) or штука ('shtukV), in Spanish if I remember
correctly it's "ese..." If that was being said frequently in Edinburgh
as you say, I'd call it more of a cultural phenomenon with linguistic
consequences, wouldn't you? Although I'll agree that with some speakers
it affects the thought processes.

Incidentally, a synonym of "thingy" in my dialect (Calgary, Alberta,
Canada) is "dealie." Do any other dialects have this word?

> I regard them and their ilk as such but then I am probably of a much
> earlier generation than most of you folks. The most atrocious example
> of all appears in Scots English, the ghastly 'Thingwy' which is used as
> a substitute for any noun and is often used more than once in a
> sentence..."Ah went tae thingwy's tae git a thingwy." was commonplace
> in Working Class Edinburgh in my childhood. Like Orwellian Newspeak it
> ultimately restricted the thought process and the vocabulary of the
> users. Far from exclusive to the Working Class I even knew several
> English academics who adopted it when resident in Scotland.

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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.14 (12) [E]

Hi all,

You were talking about, well, whadyacallem?  Doobris (no idea how to
spell that word - rhymes with blueberries, when pronounced with two
syllables).  Widgets.  Was hoofer-doofer ever one of these words? I seem
to remember it was, but now it has the specific meaning of a television
remote control.

Unfortunately, nominal aphasia means I use a wide variety of these
words.

What are their Dutch equivalents.  I would find them very useful for
such sentences as 'Does it have a .... whotsit - you know, little window
that is in the roof of a house'

Best wishes to all,

Pat
--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
   "It might look a bit messy now,
                    but just you come back in 500 years time"
   (T. Pratchett)

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From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.14 (12) [E]

> From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Hi All
>
> Ron, you said
>
> "Don't people in Australia use "thingy" in the same way, or was that only
> in
> my circles?  I thought I heard it used in England as well."
>
> Yup, in England I've used thingy before, and thingmyjig, and thingmybob,
> and
> plain thingmy and
> wodyacallit, and...

All those are used here in the US too, although I'd spell them differently:

Thingamajig, thingamabob, thingamy, whatchamacallit, plus whatsit, whosit,
whositwhatsit, gadget, doodad, doohickey, doololly, whatchamadoodle,
whatsisname, whatsisface, and plain ol' thingy.  Probably a lot of others
too, but I can't think of them right now, and individual speakers often
create their own variations.

There's even a brand of candy bar called Whatchamacallit.

> From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.04.14 (01) [E]
>
> Only person I know who used that was from Durham.
> Far as bloody Thingwy goes one Aussie friend uses it routinely but his
> Dad was a Scots wheelwright who obviously brought it with him.
> My major hatred here is the ridiculous 'At this point in time'. Why the
> hell can't they just say something like 'Currently' or even 'Now'. I
> notice US pollies have adopted this in recent years.

Oh, Americans have been using that for decades when they are trying to sound
formal.

The one that grates on my ear these days is "Back in the day".  Back in what
day?  What happened to "Back in the old days" or "Back when I was young"?

Kevin Caldwell

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From: Marsha Alley <marshaalley at msn.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.14 (12) [E]


"At this point in time."  A pet peeve of mine, also.  I remember it being
popularized in politics and news reporting during the Nixon/Watergate era
and considered it a part of the general air of obfuscation rampant then.  It
spread to the general public here in the States and was quite common by the
late 70's - still is, unfortunately.  Sets my teeth on edge every time.

According to http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/
This redundancy became popular because it was used by astronauts seeking to
distinguish precisely between a point in time and a point in space. Since
most people use the expression in contexts where there is no ambiguity, it
makes more sense to say simply “at this point” or “at this time.”

  From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
  Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.04.14 (01) [E]

  My major hatred here is the ridiculous 'At this point in time'. Why the
  hell can't they just say something like 'Currently' or even 'Now'.
----------

From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Me again...

So with regards to our Ron saying 'whatyamacallit'

an additional question to my last etymological one(and
probably a more interesting one is) where did this
'me/my/mi/ma" etc. come from - grammatically it
doesn't make a lot of sense when saying thing'my'jig,
wodya'ma'callit etc... are there parallels in other
lowland languages using a personal pronoun where it
doesn't really belong - or does it? - I'm willing to
be proved wrong

Gary

http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Ian wrote above about a Russian word:

> штука ('shtukV),

Apparently it comes from German _Stück_ 'piece', 'item'.

> Incidentally, a synonym of "thingy" in my dialect (Calgary, Alberta,
> Canada) is "dealie." Do any other dialects have this word?

I've heard my Canadian relatives (in Southern Alberta, who also lived in
Calgary until recently) use this.  It struck me as only a slightly strange
the first time I heard it, but it was immediately understandable,
reminiscent of "dealibob," another such term used in the U.S.

Great to hear from our ... Whatyamacaller ... Pat above.  Hope things are
going well for you, Pat.

> Unfortunately, nominal aphasia means I use a wide variety of these
> words.

I confess that that makes at least two of us.  I know our Tom would just
stomp out in utter disgust if he had to listen to the two of us.

Interesting etymological question there, Gary.  I suspect "my" to have
slipped in there for some reason.

By the way, thanks for the congratulations, Gary.  (I forgot to say it last
night because I was in a rush.)  The sight of those very ancient Ukrainian
ladies holding miniscule American flags was an unexpected bonus, as was the
jolly company of my little "sub-possy" (from Canada, Italy, Ethiopia,
Ukraine, Vietnam, Germany, Argentina, England, Bangladesh and Israel) during
the long waits.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Don't forget that today is tax deadline, boys and girls in the U.S.!

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