LL-L "Language use" 2005.08.25 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 25.AUG.2005 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.08.24 (03) [E]

Dear Reinhard,

you wrote:

> My prediction
> is that, should Low Saxon continue, flourish and turn into a genuine
> alternative code outside traditional contexts, this novel feeling would
> fade away and shades of social distance and proximity would become
> apparent.

But- how would you like to explain the fact that this 'special feeling' of
being closer to each other also could happen in a talk with e.g. a person
from the Netherlands, using 'Neddersaksisch' on one and  me using
'Neddersassisch' on the other side? Or the same with 'Plautdietsch' in
overseas, as I experienced myself?
These persons, I guess, cannot feel familiar from their origin- or do they
at last?

At the moment I couldn't imagine the same effect with any Friesian (though I
don't speak Friesian at all) speaker, though they don't live far from here,
are Germans as I am and moreover could be members of a very similar social
group.

Allerbest

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: "Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong" <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.08.24 (03) [E]

Re: " at Home " feelings: Jonny and Ron, I appreciate tremendously the way
both of you are trying to clarify the way the "Platt" mindset makes you
feel. I think both of you are right! Although I am not a "platt" speaker, I
think I have absorbed enough of its effect as a child to put my two cents
in.
1st. The languages of the Northwestern European coastal areas as far East as
the Elbe and maybe further were spoken by a population which had two major
ways of making a living; farming and seafaring. Whether we come by it
genetically or by way of the mutual dependency which the alternating
remoteness and proximity of farming and seafaring entail, I do not know. But
what I do know is that there runs a streak of stubborn, in your face honesty
through these people(s). It is as if we have learned to trust ourselves
within this "milieu".  The language is organic and direct. There is no
feigning being somebody which you are not. I recognize it not only in Platt
speakers but in a certain "recht voor de raap" (in your face) honesty
amongst Dutch people. I must say that I had to have lived "out of country"
for more than thirty years to appreciate what my American friends saw in us
"Dutchies".
2nd. It is this "feigning" which has crept into the language with the
aspirations of a "Bourgeoisie" which did not belong to the land, which makes
people who have this almost medieval mindset wince when faced with somebody
who uses language as a shield in front of his face. I do not know how it is
with German, but I know that the more people in the Netherlands became aware
of class, the more hierarchical the society became, the more convoluted the
language became through the introduction of mainly French vocabulary and
syntax. People left the land and lost the platt.
3rd. I also think that it was this anti-hyrarchy mindset which made the
Northwest of Europe such a fertile ground for the Reformation when it came.
4th. I do not know what came first; the mindset or the language, or whether
they helped in the development of each other. But if saving the language
saves the mindset I am all for it.
Ron and Jonny, thanks again for your efforts. Jacqueline

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Jonny (above):

> But- how would you like to explain the fact that this
> 'special feeling' of
> being closer to each other also could happen in a talk
> with e.g. a person
> from the Netherlands, using 'Neddersaksisch' on one and
> me using
> 'Neddersassisch' on the other side? Or the same with
> 'Plautdietsch' in
> overseas, as I experienced myself?

Jonny, it doesn't take a linguistics degree to figure out that the
language varieties are related and mutually comprehensible.  This alone
would help to create a bond.  Add to this what Jacqueline says above, and
add on top of these social considerations the underlying awareness of
German encroachment, the common "us vs them" attitude.  What you are
dealing with are linguistically and culturally related minorities that are
up against the same domination and have figured out that differences among
them are minimal and do not stand in the way of communicating in a
familial manner.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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