LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.05 (01) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 05 December 2005 * Volume 01
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (04) [E]

> From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.03 (01) [E]
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>
>> but we can create/generate new sentences we have never heard before,
>> that there isn't a template for.<
>
> But actually create new sentences that there isn't a template for
> ....................
>
> Try making one!

Simple would very that be!

Of problem-the course can the gibberish am come, understand listeners
you not plus.

As I said, we can, but normally we don't!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Grammar" 2005.12.03 (01) [E]

> From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.01 (02) [E]
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>
>> I actually think it should be written that way ;-)  Forgive me for
>
> I know not what I do.<
>
> and 'gimme'  and 'wassa?'
>
> You are happy for the next generation to use these as standard forms?

Don't look at me, I'm still trying to run a smear campaign on people who
write "you're" instead of "thou art". It's fine if they mean it in
plural but otherwise it's just ignorance  :)

And the modern Yorkshireman's "tha's" is not much better!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: "Grammar" 2005.12.03 (01) [E]

Heather asked: "You are happy for the next generation to use these as
standard forms?"

I'm sure that it doesn't matter one whit whether I'm happy for the next
generation or not.  The next generation will have their own preferences.
I'll be pushing up daisies, and they'll be speaking however they want ;-)
Seriously, I try not to trouble myself about it.  Humanity has been at this
for a long time, and seems to be doing okay.  No, I'm not talking about over
population and environmental degredation - I'm talking about language.

Besides, I like taking a poke at teachers now and then.  My mother was a
teacher and my daughter is one too.

Mark Brooks

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (04) [E]

> From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (01) [E]
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>
>> Language is too squirmy to fit into our boxes.<
>
> I love it!  May I use that in my next Grammar INSET!

That's so funny you should frame the whole page and put it on the wall  :)

> If you refer to Fowler et al you will find that it is perfectly
> acceptable
> to start an English sentence with And .... usually it has the force of
> Moreover.

Maybe my primary school teacher should have referred to Fowler et al!
Unfortunately she was trying to teach us not to start sentences this way
at the same time as I was reading Tom Sawyer.

And people are arguing against 'would of' here at the same time as I'm
reading Sherwood Anderson  :)

Who's Al?

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (04) [E]

> From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (02) [E]
>
> RE: conservatisme vs laisser-faire,

The mention of Fowler in this context by Heather made me ponder the real
reason why many consider Fowler to be right and all other English
writers to be wrong. Fowler isn't actually defining a standard, after
all. And I should add that he comes across as much less judgmental than
most on the rights and wrongs of Englsih usage: he seems to be more
aware than many of his readers that these things are sometimes a matter
of choice.

I don't think it's a case of right vs wrong.

I don't think it's a case of  conservatisme vs laisser-faire.

I  think it's a case of profit vs loss.

Writers and publishers folliw Fowler because he describes an agreed
system that readers have also been educated somewhat in, folks.
(gratuitious "folks" added to avoid ending sentence with preposition :)

Writers know that it's difficult to get publishers to print unFowlered
books. Publishers know that readers will see such books as low quality
and sales will fall off.

Therefore very little happy experimentation with othographic
improvements, grammatical possibilities or apocryphal apostrophals  in
published books.

On the other hand, there are now millions of bloggers who can write what
they like and instantly publish for free. It doesn't matter if they make
some mistakes, but perhaps they have a responsibility - a responsibility
not to uphold standards but to improve on them.

English orthographuc reform, here we come! Eat flaming death, evil
apostrophic minions!!!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/ 

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