LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.06 (05) [E]

Tue Dec 6 20:36:57 UTC 2005

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06 December 2005 * Volume 05
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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.05 (06) [E]

Hello Syntax Collectors (pun intended):

I would like to provide an example of my 2-year-old grandson's language
acquisition.  He talks quite a bit, and seems to understand more than he can
say.

One of his current phrases is:  "Pick you up."  From the context and timing
it's easy to see that he means "pick me up."  But, he seems to be repeating
what he hears his parents ask him, albeit pared down.  They say and ask
things like "You want me to pick you up?" and "Here, let me pick you up."
Once when I was holding him he said, "Daddy pick you up."  I laughed and
said, "You want Daddy to pick me up?"  But, he just continued saying "Daddy
pick you up."  It was clear from his reaching and leaning that he wanted his
dad to hold him and not me.

I would prefer for him to be using an elaborate deep structure to generate
his sentences (it's just so elegant for my INTP personality), but alas, he
seems to be mimicking or repeating what he hears.

Mark Brooks

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (08) [E]

To Paul, & all on this string:

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.04 (04) [E]

Hi!
> If you do think the exemplars allow those sentences, it is because you
> know already that 'ran' and 'cried' are the same kind of words and can
> be substituted for each other, the same for 'king' and 'queen'.

"Time flies like the wind."

"Fruit flies like bananas."

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.05 (03) [E]

Dear Ron and all Lowlanders,

just being an absolute ignoramus I'm watching all the postings which came
lately about phonological/grammatical developments with due respect and a
more general interest.

Already in earlier comments I stumbled over some remarks regarding a
tendency of 'lazyness' in modern languages causing e.g. changes of
consonants or simplification of grammar- and this to be watched worldwide,
as I learned here.

Now- it's hard to imagine for me that while the world around us is getting
complexer everywhere and everyday our languages allow 'themselves' to become
less structured, to loose older fussines.

I don't think that there formerly existed just a huge 'pack' of useless
stuff, in special suited to make talking and writing more difficile ;-).
I have to admit- from old times we find languages full of empty phrases,
regarding any mystics, later perhaps deities and at least praises directed
to the worldly authorities. Therefore we sometimes find it boring to read.
It's good to have left this.

But obviously there had been more- an exacter grammar e.g., which gave more
possibilities to show up even very slight differences of meanings of a
spoken or written text.
The same, I think, applies for different intonations and several other
possibilities to make an- on the first glance- identical word/a sentence to
look or to sound the one or the other way with a very different meaning.

What shall be in future? Shall we go to a streamlined language, comparable
and adapted to technical developments? Like modern cars? Nearly impossible
to distinguish the one from the other?
Though- there we find an increasingly improved technique beneath the tin! It
must be the same with communications, but- where is it hidden?

Are we riding on the trail to a perhaps boring and tasteless, but useful
'Einheitsmodell' of a language? Comparing the sound of modern Standard
German with Low Saxon, doing the same with contemporary English and that of
the times of Shakespeare I always feel a loss of character and esthetics.

Where are the borders for a development like this?
Back to some 'baeh' and 'boeh' of pre-Stone-Age won't work, I fear.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

BTW: Reini- of'nt you got some special 'pepping' Scandinavian themes for the
dark days?  Today here we had a time of just 3 hours daylight.

Greetings to all our members living even farer in the North. Don't forget to
switch on the lights in the refrigerators you're living in :-)!

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Moin, Jonny!

I currently don't have time to think about and respond to your posting.  But
if in these dark northern hours you need a little ray of sunshine, remember
that these days I'm in the business of awarding Hawaiian names in lieu of
the usual gold stars.  Here's yours:

Hehē-A'e-Nuku
(< *Hehē-Ake-Ngutu)

a'e (sideways, nearby, across)
hehē (burst of laughter)
nuku (beak, snout, mouth of a river, harbor entrance)

Groytens,
Reinhard/Ron

***
P.S.: Here's Gary's, but ... psst! ... don't tell him!
   'U'ina-Iā-Muliwai
   (< *Kukina-Iā-Muriwai)

iā (at, to, from)
muliwai (estuary)
'u'ina (sudden sharp sound, to crack, snap, crackle, creak, glottal stop) 

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