LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.05 (05) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 08 December 2005 * Volume 05
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From: Paul Tatum <ptatum at blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.08 (01) [E]

Sandy Fleming wrote:
> That's why English and BSL are very different, and likely to remain so!
>
Hi Sandy, an illuminating piece, aural language is so much more linear! 
We have to plod one thing out after another, like all the thoughts have 
to single file out of the mouth. The little I've observed of signed 
conversations, they have always seemed to be much more 'simultaneous' 
than spoken language, both people signing at the same time more often. 
(Unless I only ever see arguments? :-))

Paul Tatum.

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.08 (01) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>Another example. Valid exemplars would include:
"I'll look the name up" (e.g in a book)
"I'll look up the name" (same sense)
"I'll look up the street" (i.e. i'll see what's happened down the road)

but you can't say
"I'll look the street up"
or
"I'll climb the mountain down"
<

Not surprisingly!  

Because you are mixing/muddling prepositional phrases with propositional
verbs

he looked .. where? up the street

cannot be compared with

He looked up .... what? ... a word   where? in a dictionary

This is the problem when you look at surface similarities - or homonyms

The brain develops ( apparently) the ability to distinguish between

Flies that fly

Flies that do up

and the verb it flies

So asking or looking for explanations for what look like 'the same word'
are basing their investigation on a false premise - i.e. that they are the
same words - and of course they are not; they have arrived at this point in
time from very different developmental paths.

Just because they have ended up LOOKING the same, does not mean they have
to BE the same word and therefore require explanation for different uses
within a sentence. (This is why etxtual anaysis is such an important skills
to teach children - especially English speakers!)

As for the dual possibilities for prepositional verbs in English
"I'll look the name up" (e.g in a book)
"I'll look up the name" (same sense)

Someone somewhere at sometime ( probably a classicist) decided that havinga
preposition at the end of a sentence was 'not on'! and so formed the 'rule'
that gets passed down still re not ending a sentence with a preposition.

Had the same grammarian been steeped in German grammar instead of Latin &
Greek he would have realised that separable verbs have a long and
distinguished history in German grammar and therefore will have come into
English at an early stage ( as and when they were developing themselves?)
and of course it is OK to have them at the end ... if you want.

Heather

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