LL-L "Phonology" 2005.02.07 (02) [E/LS]

Mon Feb 7 22:41:02 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.02.06 (04) [E/LS]

Reinhard,

> From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> Moin, Jonny!
>
> > No, Sir! I guess, You didn't hear our native people since long
times.
> ...
> > "de Hoa:n" (with a falling, dropping  "a")=("the cock")
> > "dat Hou:n" (with a falling, dropping "u")=("the hen")
> > "de Mou:nd" (with a falling, dropping "u")=("the moon, month")
> > "dat Bau:t" (with a falling, dropping "u")="the boat"...
>
> What seems to be going on in your particular dialect looks like a
> transitional stage. Diphthongization of /oo/ by rule does take place,
but
> original /ou/ remains distinct from it.  By and large, this is
consistent
> with my theory whereby monophthong /oo/ becomes dipthongized.  In this
> case,
> instead of leveling with /ou/ (as e.g. in Hamburg, Olland, Veerlannen,
> etc.), it remains distinct, since /ou/ is realized as [aU] (perhaps
> shifted
> to this *in order to* preserve the distinction).

This sounds very complicated to me, and again I'm not sure that I do
understand all of it.

> Oftentimes it also depends on a speaker's
> age
> and competence.

Wherelse competence can come from than by using and speaking a language?
Not just and alone by writing- that's another thing.-

Tja- ick weet ne sou recht, wat ick dat ook al begriepen dau- ick bün
heel keen Schenie, un mien Ingelsch is man jüst good naug för dat
"Doogliche". Schullst mol opp Haugdüütsch schriiven, en passant.

> What surprises me a bit is _Hohn_ 'chicken' as /hoon/ [hoUn] rather
than
> expected */houn/ [ha.Un].  In the case of "boat" I may have been
mistaken.
> It's underlyingly /bout/, not */boot/.
De "[hoUn]" is een Keerl, dat "[ha.Un]" de Deern doortau. Hannen Jii
keen Höhners in Hambörg?

> Dat is foken so'n Oort
> Kompetenz-Ünnergroben, so'n Aflenken von een sien egene Unsekerheit.
Ik
> will
> mi nich dick doon, will nich seggen, dat ik allens weten do
> Nu hest dat villicht nich so meent, man ik wohrscho Di un
> annere
> liekers...
> ...denn kriggst een an'n Dassel (wenn ok nich so doll, dat Du glieks
ümkippen
> deist). De Oort Schiet heff ik satt.
Na- wat kann ick dooran mooken, wat Dien Fatt överlaupen deit? Dusend
Fleegen freet von een Hümpel Schiet- mutt wat Gaud's ween...
Ick weet ne recht, wat ick düsse Musik lieden mag. Woor Di- ick schech
ook trüch, beste Reini! Hevv ick oppe Warft leihrt, mit een Stück Iesen
inne Fuust.

> So, Jonny, let me quiz you by giving you a few tentative
pronunciations in
> your dialect.

> Which ones are correct, and which ones are incorrect?
>
> Thanks a lot for your help, Jonny!
>
> Kumpelmenten,
> Reinhard/Ron

The LL-L-test:

> /laat/ [loat] 'late':
= lao:t (mit Tendenz zu "[lo:t]")

> /kraam/ [kroa.m] 'stuff'
= [kroa.m] (mit Tendenz zu [kro:m])

> /aven/ ["?oa.b=m] 'stove', 'oven'
= ["?oa.b=m]

> /faarn/ [foa.Vn] 'to drive', 'to ride (a vehicle)'
= fö:ern ("faU.n"="füttern")

> /soo/ [zoU] 'so'
= [zaU]?? (meer: [zoU])

> /stroom/ [stroU.m] 'river', 'stream'
= [stroU.m]

> /dood/ [doUt] 'dead'
= [doUd]

> /doun/ [daU.n] 'to do'
= [doU.n]

> /boun/ [baU.n] 'to build'
= [baU.n]

> /loupn/ ["laUp=m] 'to walk', 'to run'
= ["loUp=n]

> /fout/ [faUt] 'foot'
= [foUt]

Hevv ick miin Exoom'n bestoon? Anners muttst' Bescheed geeven- denn  bün
ick woll döörfullen.

Is mi wiesau all 'n beeten wat dweer koomen- opp mennig welk Froogen
bekoomst hier heel keen Anter.

Gneeter-Greutens

Johannes <"Jonny" Meibohm>

PS: Your competence is really great and admirably, but NOT godlike, as
far as I allow to fear.

----------

From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Velen Dank för de Spraak-Daten, Jonny.

> Hevv ick miin Exoom'n bestoon? Anners muttst' Bescheed geeven-
> denn  bün ick woll döörfullen.

To'n Füünsch- un Snippsnutigwesen gifft 't na mien Verscheel keen Grund, man
dat weetst sachs beter.

> Your competence is really great and admirably, but NOT godlike, as
> far as I allow to fear.

Heff ik dat amenn maal seggt, dat ik dat bün?  Mien Menen was, dat een good
un geern seggen kann, dat de Schriever wat nich weten deit -- un bi so veel
Dialekten un Kraam kann keen een allens weten.  Man seggen, dat he or se
ahnweten is, wiel dat he or se annerwegens wahnt, dat he or se 'n annern
Staatsbörger is or so wat, or dat he or se man bloots schrieven un nich
snacken kann, dat is up bewieslose Annahmen boot.  Up düsse List wüllt wi
Vöroordelen un Moderspraken-Grootschheit ut'n Weg gahn.

Annere Lüüd' up de List weett wull, dat ik good un geern togeev' un fraag',
wenn ik wat nich weet.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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