LL-L "Accents" 2005.02.22 (10) [E]

Tue Feb 22 22:08:46 UTC 2005

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From: Ian James Parsley <ian at ianjamesparsley.net>
Subject: Accents

Jo, Ron et al,

I don't think underlying Irish Gaelic has anything to do with it, because of
course Gaelic was spoken in Northern Ireland just as in the rest of the
island, and indeed many of the settlers from Scotland spoke with a
Gaelic-influenced accent of their own. In fact, the evidence would appear to
be that Gaelic influences language more in the north of Ireland (i.e.
including County Donegal) than the rest of the island.

I understand, perhaps someone on the list will know about this, that a test
did show that 'prejudice' does have something to do with how we think of
accents. As I remember, people in the UK were asked what they thought of
people (heard but unseen) speaking with different regional accents and
overwhelmingly felt the ones with Birmingham and Liverpool accents least
likeable and least trustworthy. Yet when the same test was done with
Americans (i.e. using UK regional accents), no discernible difference was
recorded. The assumption, therefore, was that UK people had used their
knowledge of Birmingham and Liverpool to make their conclusions, whereas
Americans were not prejudiced by knowing the accents of the cities involved.

On that basis (but I have no sources for it like I say), Ron would appear to
be correct. In Ireland
Northerners (particularly Northeasterners) were always associated with
industry and the 'work ethic', i.e. seen as hard-working and serious. With
the addition of terrorism into the mix, the reputation of Northern Ireland
has probably been transferred to the accent. On the other hand Southern
Ireland was always associated with 'the craic', i.e. fun and living for the
day. The fact that Southern Ireland (or at least the Dublin area) is now by
far the most economically productive place on the island and that crime
rates there easily match those in contemporary Northern
Ireland, thereby rendering all the above nonsense (and it may never have
been true), is of course as relevant as pointing out that the War finished
60 years ago in Ron's case!

Regards,
Ian P. (from the 'Black North')

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From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Accents" 2005.02.22 (04) [E]

Lieve Laaglanners,
All of you, Ron, Ian P., and others who have contributed to the colloquy on
accents and perceptions, have raised a point that is central to an important
factor in linguistic shifts and changes. Accents, or differences in
pronunciation patterns, are among those "narcissism of small difference"
items that can cause wars.

I grew up in Appalachia (West Virginia), where my accent marked me as a
toothless, tobacco-spitting, moonshine-swilling, illiterate hillbilly, prone
to incest and gratuitous violence. A similar accent, spoken in Texas, is
honored as the tongue of cowboys and heroes.

When studying in Munich, my Rhenish accent (acquired in Bonn) marked me as
Platt or, even worse, "Hollaender". Decades later, returning to Munich after
living 7 years in Hamburg, Jork, Stade, Mitternkirchen, and Norderstedt, I
had become a "Sauproass".

Have you ever heard a Fleming argue with a Dutchperson over the relative
merits of "Verdieping" vs. "Etage"?

Many have seen Slovenians come to blows with Croatians when the former said
"hvala ljepa" for "thank you".

But the primal force more powerful than accent is that of Aura. Let me give
you an example: An acquaintance of mine, whom we shall call for the purposes
of this diatribe, "Ron Hahn", is a native of the Niederelbe, and admits to
spending time in the Altes Land and elsewhere in that damp region. There is
a mountain of evidence that he consorts with known Frisians, Flemings and
Afrikaners.

Last week, Ron --and his Nordsee Aura-- traveled south to California.
Immediately, we were visited by a plague of rain, wind, hail, waterspouts, a
Springflut and a Landunder.For a time, Los Angeles became "Du graue Stadt am
Meer."

Coincidence? I think not. Wij hebben genoeg.

Yers,

Arthur

Arthur A. Jones

"There, but for the grace of God, goes an unnecessary sound shift."

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Accents

Arthur:

> I grew up in Appalachia (West Virginia), where my accent marked
> me as a toothless, tobacco-spitting, moonshine-swilling, illiterate
hillbilly,
> prone to incest and gratuitous violence.

Why, don't tell me you *weren't* any of the above!  8-]

> Last week, Ron --and his Nordsee Aura--

Plus 22 years' worth of Pacific Northwest moss and lichen gathered on his
back, not to mention a case of early onset webbed feet.

> Last week, Ron --and his Nordsee Aura-- traveled south to California.
> Immediately, we were visited by a plague of rain, wind, hail, waterspouts,
> a Springflut and a Landunder.For a time, Los Angeles became "Du graue
> Stadt am Meer."

And it isn't the first time.  Before the blessed moment of your return to
the blissful fold, said individual drove down (last Christmas) through
weather that would have horrified even the likes of Tam O' Shanter, weather
that stuck around until the very day of his northward departure almost three
weeks later.  This was repeated this time around: I am told that the sun
smiles over the Bay Area as we "speak."

> Wij hebben genoeg.

"Genoeg"?! You wouldn't even know the meaning of the word "genoeg"!  Wait
till aforemention suspect moves back to the so-called "Golden State"
permanently!  It's only a matter of time, I say, only a matter of time.
Electric storms of half-day duration?  Waterspouts?  Torrential rains?
Mudslides?  Sinkholes?  Global warming?  Pah!  You ain't seen nothing yet,
California, baby.  May Nyod sain an hain us aw!

Ominously yours,
Reinhard/Ron

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