LL-L "Etymology" 2005.01.29 (04) [A/E/LS/German]

Sat Jan 29 21:20:55 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.01.28 (07) [E/LS/German]

Jonny wrote:

>
> Ich bitte Sie alle herzlich um Ihre freundliche Stellungnahme und
> frage Sie,
> ob ich zukünftige Anfragen nicht doch lieber auf Hochdeutsch stellen
> sollte,
> vielleicht mit englischer Übersetzung oder zumindest (aus
> Bequemlichkeit und
> einem gewissen Schamgefühl) stichwortartiger Sinnangabe.
>
Beste Jonny,

ik heff Dien Schrievwark woll verstaan, awer ik bün keen Spraakwetenschopper
un weet vun Dien Fraag nix vun af. Schriev man fudder as Di de Griffel
wassen is, ik mag dat woll lieden.

Mit Kumpelment
Utz H. Woltmann

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From: Arend Victorie <victorie.a at home.nl>
Subject: Etymology

Moi Jonny,

In 't Nederlaands "Slik" is angewaste maor nog niet ingedykte grond.

Middelnederlaands "Slic" Middelhoogduuts "slich"

't woord "Swaren" kan ik niet vienden. Wel "Waarden" en dat is leeglaand wat
deur de opkoomde Vloed onder 't water komp te staon. En as 't weer Eb weurd
dan blef der "Slik" achter.

Het woord "Sluus" Middelnederlaands " Slûse     Hoogduuts “Schleuse” in 16e
jaor honderd aoverneumen uut ’t Nederlaands. Onder onvloed van “Schliesen”

Fra. “Ėcluse” wat buuten’esleuten betiekend. "Sluus-Swaren" vileicht
leeglaand buuten de dyk. (Also is Buuten'esleuten)

Ik wete niet a’j daor wat an hebt.

Maor ik heb dacht ik schrief ’t toch maor even.

Goodgaon

Arend Victorie

Hoogeveen (Drenthe)

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.01.28 (07) [E/LS/German]

Beste Jonny en Ron:

Onderwerp: "Language Varies"

Jonny, ek smeek u toegewing: Ek weet ek kon niks bydra uit die dorre wêreld
van ons, toe het ek maar stil gebly.

Ron: Kan die oorsprong van die woorde _sliks(waren)_ en _sluus(waren)_ wees?
Ek vra want die taak van die man sal moet wees om die watergange te 'bewaar'
nê? Ek maak die stelling natuurlik uit die diepte van my kennis - so -
enkeldiep.
En kan dit van belang wees, die woord 'swaer' in Afrikaans onder andere
tale, benoeming vir die broer van jou eggenoot?

Groete,
Mark

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.01.28 (07) [E/LS/German]

Hallo, all Lowlandic people,

as I fear our common language is English at first- so I shall try to
make myself better readable this way- specially for my german
countrymen, :-).

We had the following:

> Betreff: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.01.28 (07) [E/LS/German]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> .... un de Wöör "Slickswaren" un "Slüüs-Swaren" kinn ik tovœr
> ook nich.  Kümmt dat Woord "Swaar" in den Sinn ook alleen vör?
>
> So as ik dat verstahn do, is dat Orginaalbedüden vun ingelsch _slick_
> sowat
> as "glibberig", "glitschig', "slipperig", "glier(ig)" or "glatt" --
t.B.
> _The streets get very slick in wintertime_ (De Straten wardt bannig
> glitschig in'n Winter).  Daar sünd denn neje Bedüden vun maakt worren,
so
> as
> "dörchneiht", "dörchdräven".  "Dörchneiht" kann good un leeg' sien.
"'n
> dörchneihten Jung" kann eisch (negatiev) or plietsch (positiev) sien.
> Ingelsch _slick_ kann ook positiev sien, so as wenn wen seggt "Wow!
> Slick!"
> wenn ik em wies', wat 'n mit de Software doon kann.  Dink ook an
"glatt un
> glier" or "He is so'n Glatten" vun 'n Minsch, de dörchdräven,
verslaan,
> vigeliensch, veniensch, schuulsch or tücksch is.  Ja, düsse Minsch
kann 'n
> "glatt/glier Muul" hebben un "glatt/glier snacken," kann di "na't Muul
> snacken".
>
> Na mien Verschääl hangt ingelsch _slick_ mit neddersassisch "Slick" (>
> "hoog"-düütsch _Schlick_) tosamen.  De Slick is 'n Aard glibberig,
> slipperig
> Matsch.
>
> Folks, Jonny is a bit frustrated because he didn't get any response to
his
> question regarding the Low Saxon (Low German) terms (1) _Slickswaren_
and
> (2) _Slüüs-Swaren_, two terms he found used in the context of
historical
> dike laws.  They denote people that are responsible for locks/sluices.
I
> have never come across these terms and would not have imagined them to
> denote people, my associations with "Swaar" being different.
>
> One thing Jonny wonders about is how it came to be that term 1 was
> replaced
> term 2 after only fifty years.
>
> The other thing Jonny observed is that Low Saxon _Slick_ (_slik_)
> '(alluvial) mud', 'silt' seems to be connected with English "slick,"
and
> Jonny identifies with the latter the meanings of 'tricky', 'sly',
> 'smooth'.
> I explained that the original meaning of 'slick' appears to be
'slippery'
> etc., and that the others, including "Wow, slick!" (in the sense of
> "ingenious"), seem to be derived meanings.
>
> Kumpelmenten/Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Thanks, Reinhard!

This was great help for me- I didn't find "slick" neither in my
old-saxon dictionary nor in the old-english one. Just some derives
(same, as You friendly did explain above).
As You know, we don't use the word "slick", "Schlick" as a lowlandic
expression in these days, but prefer "Mud", "Mohn", "Klei" - though all
of them don't exactly describe the (meanwhile) high-german Word
"Schlick".

> Kümmt dat Woord "Swaar" in den Sinn ook alleen vör?
No- it always appears in combination with other prefixes as
"Diekswaaren", ook "Teichswaaren" (= "Deichgeschworene", "dikejury") and
so on.

I guess it to be interesting how it ran in other Lowlandic areas round
"The  Sea". When did they shift to "Schlüüs", "sluize", "sluice"?

As far as I know at the moment this term(s) came over to Germany by
Dutch influence- they were (and still are,after the Romanic Imperium
vanished :-)) the masters in nearly all water referred technics.

Greutens/sincerely

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Arend:

> 't woord "Swaren" kan ik niet vienden. Wel "Waarden" en dat is leeglaand
> wat deur de opkoomde Vloed onder 't water komp te staon. En as 't weer
> Eb weurd dan blef der "Slik" achter.

Mark:

> Ron: Kan die oorsprong van die woorde _sliks(waren)_ en _sluus(waren)_
> wees?
> Ek vra want die taak van die man sal moet wees om die watergange te
> 'bewaar'
> nê? Ek maak die stelling natuurlik uit die diepte van my kennis - so -
> enkeldiep.

Ah!  Good one, fellas!  The guardians or protectors of the dikes --
*_war(d)_!

Jonny:

> No- it always appears in combination with other prefixes as
> "Diekswaaren", ook "Teichswaaren" (= "Deichgeschworene", "dikejury") and
> so on.

Ah again!  Now we're getting hotter.  _Swaren_, nominalized past participle
of _swoyren_ (_swören_) 'to swear (and oath)', so, as in German
_Geschworene_ or _Vereidigte_ (> 'juror,' 'affiant'), thus 'person under
oath (in charge of dikes)'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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