LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.02 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 02.JUN.2005 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Jo Thijs <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.06.01 (02) [E]

Hi Heather,

> OED has a nice little addition  : belongs to a group of imitative words
> i.a.  Sanskrit  'karavas' = crow  literally "that says 'ka'"
>
> So what does Maurus mean?
> 'Cos I sort of remember that the name Hrabanus Maurus was tautology.
>
> Is Maurus Latin for raven ? I had thought it meant 'black' and that the
> word Hrabanus therefore also had originally meant black.

Maybe it's the other way around and does 'maurus' mean the speaker. Cfr for
instance Ohg _murmuron_, Lat _murmurare_, Gr _mormurein_, Arm _mrmram_, Oind
_marmara_, Du _murmelen_.

Maybe the raven or crow originally also was a 'speaker' like in Dutch
_rabbelen, raffelen_, Eng _to rabble_, Fries _rabbelje_ and maybe
Lat._urbanus_. After all crows/ravens can speak but this distinctive feature
has become less salient with those imported parrots and beos. (My former
neighbour had a crow who was calling 'François', his son, all the time, even
years after he'd moved out).

Only a guess,

Groeten,

Jo Thys

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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: lexicon

Dear all

I haven't been following this debate but just to follow on from Ron's
section:

"In most North Saxon dialects of Low Saxon, _smyten_ (<smieten>)* tends to
be the default word for 'to throw', 'to cast'.  It tends to be the
equivalent of German _werfen_.  The cognate of German _werfen_ and Dutch
_werpen_  seems to be lost.  (I would expect *_warpen_, petrified in
_mulwarp_ ~ _mulworp_ 'mole').  In the farwestern dialects, especially in
those of Eastern Friesland, you get _goyen_ (<gooien>).

* The English cognate "to smite," originally 'to throw', later  specialized
in 'to administer a blow'."

I notice the Friesland use of goyen, which I assume is 'to throw'. In
Northumberland we use 'hoy' (throw) or 'hoyin' (throwing) (sometimes used in
a slang way for vomiting). It has been mentioned to me in the past that this
word could be a Dutch borrowing or influence.

Another interesting word we use in this context is 'stot' (to 'bounce',
rebound, throw or propel
something or it is a word used to describe a continuous banging or thumping,
i.e. A've got aa
stottin heedache - I've got a thumping headache).

Hope this is of some interest.

Gan canny,

Glenn

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Very interesting, Glenn!

> I notice the Friesland use of goyen, which I assume is
> 'to throw'. In Northumberland we use 'hoy' (throw) or
> 'hoyin' (throwing)

In Flemish, the _g-_ is pronounced as a voiced fricative and in some
dialects as a voiced "h".  So it makes total sense that "hoy" comes from
_gooi-_.

"Stot" is likely to come from _stoten_ (root /stoot-/), cognate of Low Saxon
_stoten_ and German _stoßen_ 'to push', 'to hit', 'to butt', 'to thrust',
etc.

Northumbrian dialects deserve a closer look, it seems.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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