LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.06.15 (08) [B/D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.JUN.2005 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.15 (03) [D]


Ik ken Belgen
>mit Franse
>naam maar met Vlaams als moedertaal, en ik ken meer Belgen met
>Vlaamse naam
>maar met Frans of Walloons als moedertaal (of met Frans als hun
>verkozen
>taal ...).
>
>Groeten,
>Reinhard/Ron


Ieël wa Floaminge zèn zoe e föftig- of sestigtal joare geleije nor Wallounië
ver-oaisd veur in de maaine te won waarke, veural mengsen öt de Limburg of
öt West-Vloandere. D'ieëste generoase sprak allieën un plötselijk dialect en
noame mettertaaid oek Woals ouver van un colleiga's (mor ze kende mieëstal
gin Standoard Neiderlaans of schoeë Fraans). Soems lieërden un kindere noeg
wel 'n bitje Vloms mor ouver 't algemieën is de twidde, en zeiker de daarde,
generouse volleidig verfraanst. Mor natuirlek bleiven un achternoame wel
Vloms.
D'roem da feul eidendoagse Woalse (ex-)toppolitici 'ne Vlomse noam emme: Van
Cauwenberghe, Spitaels, Van der Biest, (Isabelle Durant is oek van Vlomse
afkomst mor ei 'ne Fraanse noam), enzoevaaier

E poar weike/meungde geleje was er in den Humo (e weikblad ier in Vloandere)
'n artikkelreiks ouver deis migroase, d'rmei da'k et maai noeg erinner. 'k
Docht da t'r in totoal mieër as 'n alf m'ljoen (650 000?) migraante woare in
de joare '50.

A lot of Flemish people have moved to Wallony about 50 or 60 years ago,
mainly people from Limburg or West-Flanders (economically weaker regions?),
for seeking work in the mines and steel industry in Luik,... Ther first
generation only spoke their local dialect and took over Walloon dialects
from their vllages where they lived. Maybe a few brought up thir children in
their language but in general the second and for sure the third generation
is now completely French-speaking. Of course, their Flemish last names
remain though.
A lot of them became famous politicians of the socialist party, eg. Van
Cauwenberghe, Spitaels, Van der Biest, (Isabelle Durant's father also was
from Limburg iirc. but she has a French-looking name?) etcetera.

A few weeks/months ago the magazine Humo had a few articles about this
migration, with interviews with (now old) people that went to there. I
thought it were more than half a million people that migrated, in those
'50s, about 650 000 or so?

D. Masure
[Diederik]

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Bedankt, Diederik.  Maar er zijn ook vele Brusselaars die van het
"Nederlands" naar het Frans "bekeerd" worden zijn. Ik ken sommige van die
persoonlijk.  Een van hen (die ik bijna iedere dag zie) spreekt Nederlands
met zijn vrouw (die in Antwerpen opgroeide), weigert zich met zijn kinderen
Nederlands te spreken, wil niet dat ze het leren (ook niet Vlaams of
Brabants), gelooft eerlijk dat de Nederlandse talen minderwaardig zijn en
verkiest buiten het huis Frans of Engels te spreken. Hij wil dat hun
Engelstalige kinderen Frans en Duits als buitenlandse talen leren. Zijn
familie is van puur Vlaamstalige afkomst en de familie van zijn vrouw is van
overwegend Brabantstalige afkomst.

Thanks, Diederik. But there are also many Brussels residents that have been
"converted" from "Dutch" to French.  I know some of those personally. One of
them (whom I see almost every day) speaks Dutch with his wife (who grew up
in Antwerp), refuses to speak Dutch to his children, does not want them to
learn Dutch (and not Flemish or Brabantish either) and sincerely believes
that Netherlandic languages are inferior, and he prefers to speak French or
English outside the home. He wants their English-speaking children to learn
French and German as foreign languages. His family is of purely
Flemish-speaking descent, and his wife's family is of predominantly
Brabantish-speaking descent.

Groeten/Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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