LL-L "Grammar" 2005.06.30 02) [E]

Thu Jun 30 21:04:53 UTC 2005

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From: "Roger Hondshoven" <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.06.29 (10) [E]

> From: Leslie Decker <leslie at volny.cz>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.06.29 (06) [E]
>
> What about in the Elsschot poem "Het huwelijk?"  There are two lines that
I
> remember studying in class in Leiden:  "Maar doodslaan deed hij niet" and
> "Maar sterven deed zij niet."  The prof pointed out what a strange
> construction that was.  Of course, for the English speakers, it didn't
even
> faze us!  I wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't been pointed out to me.
How
> common would something like this be where he was from, or was it all just
> poetic license?
>
> A link to the poem is here for all who are interested.
> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4675/elsschot/huwelijk.html
>
> Leslie Decker
>
> > From: ÃžjÃ³Ã°rÃkr ÃžjÃ³Ã°reksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Grammar
> >
> > About the "do" as auxiliary...
> >
> > We here don't know it, but my father's girlfriend is born in the
> > Netherlandic part of Brabant and she uses it quite often: "Doe nou je
> > tanden poetsen" = "Go brush your teeth now!" or "Doe nou effe eten" =
"eat
> > now". She speaks no dialect at all but apparently this is a very
> > long-living feature ;)
> > I know more of her friends/family who use it. She comes from the region
> > Bergen-op-Zoom.
> >
> > Diederik Masure
>
> ----------
>
> From: Cullin Feddema <cufeddema at yahoo.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.06.29 (06) [E]
>
>
>   Quote: "Yn 't wolnimmen. Wolkom, en Hummel-Hummel!"
>
>   Moors-Moors!
>
>   Quote: "We here don't know it, but my father's girlfriend is born in the
>   Netherlandic part of Brabant and she uses it quite often: "Doe nou je
> tanden
>   poetsen" = "Go brush your teeth now!" or "Doe nou effe eten" = "eat
now".
>   >
>   O yes, the southern part of the Netherlands and Flanders are renowned
for
> their 'doen'. I have friends in Eindhoven, who 'doen' everything. 'Doede
de
> hond even buitenlaten?' At first it sounded really funny to me. I hear it
a
> lot here in Hamburg as well.
>
>   Cullin wrote:
>"the southern part of the Netherlands and Flanders are renowned for
> their 'doen'. I have friends in Eindhoven, who 'doen' everything. 'Doede
de
> hond even buitenlaten?' At first it sounded really funny to me.
> the southern part of the Netherlands and Flanders are renowned for
> their 'doen'. I have friends in Eindhoven, who 'doen' everything. 'Doede
de
> hond even buitenlaten?' At first it sounded really funny to me. "

I have never heard the expression 'Doede de
> hond even buitenlaten" in Brabant or Limburg (Belgium). And I certainly
don't use it myself.

Best regards,

Roger Hondshoven

----------

From: "Ben J. Bloomgren" <godsquad at cox.net>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.06.29 (04) [E]

"Scandinavian languages use auxiliaries?"

No, I have not seen any use of Â«gjÃ¸rÂ» or Â«vÃ¦reÂ» as auxiliaries, but
I have
seen the strange form Â«skalÂ» for the future marker. I don't know from where
that came.
Ben

----------

From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.06.29 (04) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>
Is this at all of interest to you, Heather?<

Yup!  Very fascinating .

Could it be a pre Celtic substrat ?
There was a school of thought In Wales in the late 19th century who
analysed the grammar of Welsh and came to the the conclusion that it ( and
Irish) grammar, in too many points for co-incidence,  compared favourably
with the Berber languages of North Africa including Coptic!
Among others:
the use of a 3rd person singular verb for a 3rd person plural noun - except
when a 3rd person subject pronoun was used.
the use of the verb to be + infinitive with the preposition 'in' to
construct the present tense
The use of the preposition 'after/back' to form the past tense
There was also evidence of inflected prepositions

Their reasoning was that peoples from the eastern mediterranean could have
sailed through the Straits of Gibraltar, along the Spanish coast , across
Biscay to Brittany and then up St Georges Channel and settled on both sides
of the water in Ireland and Wales.
That when the Celts came, they came without females, took the indigenous
women as wives, who learnt the vocab of their husbands but retained in some
large measure the sentence structure of their own language.

One wonders what kind of language/s was spoken by the pre Iron Age
Europeans and whether the grass roots languages of the continent still
today reflect it/them in any way?

Heather

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Heather (above):

> One wonders what kind of language/s was spoken by the pre Iron Age
> Europeans and whether the grass roots languages of the continent still
> today reflect it/them in any way?

Indeed!  I often think about that and about presumably non-Indo-European
language(s) in our Lowlands and beyond.  Also, I think that early
migration, traveling and trade connections are generally under-researched
and underrated, even though the Great Migrations are mentioned in general.
 For example, ancient Arabic coins were found along Germany's Baltic
coast.  Some assume they ended up there by way of trading, initiated by
Swedes (Rus) that had established themselves along the Volga river and in
Constantinopel (Istanbul).  However, we also have the best descriptions of
pre-Christian West Slavonic life in what is now Germany from ... Arabic
travelogs.  So there seem to have been direct connections.  We also know
that Westerners went to and lived in China already in the Tang period
(618-907 CE), if not earlier, at least four centuries before Marco Polo
supposedly "discovered" China.  Furthermore, the seemingly "Caucasian"
mummies -- some of them four thousand years old and older -- discovered in
Eastern Turkestan (China's Xinjiang) were apparently found wearing
garments made of materials whose weaving styles were previously known only
in Western Europe, including Ireland ...  Furthermore, this was the
homeland of the Soghdians whose language is Indo-European, and we don't
know when their pre-Buddhist ancestors arrived there.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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