LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.19 (12) [D/E/LS]

Thu May 19 23:03:04 UTC 2005

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 19.MAY.2005 (12) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (ZeÃªuws)
=======================================================================

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Etymology

Hoj Mike!,

> PS Did you actually go to the trouble of typing out that
> lengthy passage just for us?  ?? ?!

Zeker...scanning met OCR geeft ten eerste een probleem voor wat betreft het
herkennen van niet zo frequente tekens als een lange klinker (klinker met
een streepje erboven...macron) of een korte klinker (klinker met een
omgekeerd accent circonflexe...breve)...ten tweede schreef SchÃ¶nfeld in een
oude spelling, die toen wel modernistisch was, maar die nu niet meer
gebruikt wordt (dus geen spellingschecker mogelijk).

Om zo kort mogelijk bij het origineel te zitten, heb ik dus alles manueel
ingetikt...ook die korte en lange klinkers...maar!...spijtig genoeg zijn ze
niet herkend geweest door bepaalde mailsoftware (hoewel mijn Outlook 2003 in
Unicode loopt). Toch nog even testen hier...de volgende klinker zou een o
met een streepje erboven moeten zijn: Å

Nothing but the best for all my buddies, hÃ© Mike *s*...

Vriendelijke groeten,

Luc Hellinckx

PS: Ben een tijd uit roulatie geweest...en voelde me daardoor misschien ook
een beetje schuldig *s*.
PPS: Ron: "MÃ¤nneke", zaa de goei Ã¥Ã¥ mÃ Ã n, "erre nog ni genoeg?" "NiÃ«t!" riep
klanen Ibbelman, "miÃ«r, miÃ«r!"

----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.19 (08) [E]

Yes, I noticed that too. Strange, I thought English and the other Lowlands
languages drifted apart already a lot earlier, mainly because of Norman &
French influence and lit. isolation, but since Middle E. was still much
more Germanic than Modern E., I start to doubt that...

It's good to see for me maybe, because I've always had some reservations
about English being called a Lowlands language, to be true, and with the
fact it takes such an important place at this list. For me, Low Saxon,
Dutch and also Frisian are the real *core* Lowlands languages, and e.g
much more related (multiple intelligible) Modern German is excluded...

btw: uhten-tyd: D. ochtend = morning
yerne/gierne: D. has gaarne not geern
blythe: D. blij, blijde; Dutch LS: blyde (North), bliy (East)
plight: D. plicht

In Mike's version: who hath YE don this vileynye. I'd expect YOW there,
but of course I know nothing about Middle English.

Ingmar

>R. F. Hahn

>Folks, yesterday I announced Mike's and my renditions of the wren story
into
>Middle English verse.  If  any of you have taken a look them or plans to
do
>so, don't you agree that the language retains a lot of vocabulary and
>morphology that makes it rather easy for speakers of Scots and of
>Continental Lowlands languages to understand, namely items that in Modern
>English are absent or archaic?  Here are some examples:
>
>bynne(n): cf. LS binnen, D binnen, S ben
>churl, cherl: cf. LS keyrl, D kerel
>earst: cf. WF earst, LS eyrst, D eerst
>fader: cf. LS vad(d)er (Fad(d)er), D vader
>fare(n): cf. LS varen, D varen, S fare (to go/travel)
>ferne: cf. LS veyrn
>gare(n): cf. S gar
>gloppen: LS glupen
>grille, gril: cf. LS gral
>herne: cf. LS hoyrn(e)
>kindle: cf. LS kind, D kind
>mote(n): cf. LS moeten, D moeten, S maun
>rygge, rugge: cf. WF rÃªch, LS rÃ¼g(ge), D rug, S rig
>uhten-tyd: cf. LS uchten-tyd
>umb: cf. LS Ã¼m, D om
>un-wight: cf. LS unwicht
>ware(n): cf. WF warre, LS waren
>yerne, gierne: cf. LS geyrn, D geern

----------

From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.18 (01) [D/E/LS]

Dag, Reynhard,

Jonny:
>> Ha- dat is in uns LS 'n 'Snaarbuedel', ouk (woll wat ouler/oeller):
>> 'Snartbuedel' (?van 'Snartlock' = Snuut?).

Reynhard:
> "Snart" vun "snuut"?  Nee, dat gloyv' ik nich.  Kun _snart_ mit Ingelsch
> _snort_ verwandt syn?

Tjer- mi dycht, dor hevv ick woll 'n Feeler mookt.
In't Originaal heyt dat:

      Hans danzt mit de groote Greet,
      Harr en Jack mit sÃ¼lvern KnÃ¶Ã¶p,
      Harr en Rock mit fief Folen (Falten),
      Kunn't Snortlock ne holen.

Ick hevv dor 'n _a_  hensett, wo 'n _o_ woll recht wat beeter weyr- van
wegen, wat de "a"-Nedderdyytschen dat beeter begriepen dout. Hier mutt dat
_o_ woll blyven!?

----------

From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.19 (08) [E]

Dear Ron,

> ...don't you agree that the language retains a lot of vocabulary and
> morphology that makes it rather easy for speakers of Scots and of
> Continental Lowlands languages to understand,...

that's GREAT!

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ingmar:

> It's good to see for me maybe, because I've always had some reservations
> about English being called a Lowlands language, ...

That's not only because of the well-known results of Scandinavian and
Norman-French influences but also because on an international level only a
very limited range of the Modern Standard English language is known,
something that has been growing into International English.  Even Modern
English alone consists of far more than that, but most people, including
most non-British native English speakers, are not familiar with the
unabbridged version of this incredibly rich and diverse language.  Just by
reading a wide range of English literature from the late 19th century onward
you would see that there are far more similarities to the Continental
Lowlands languages than you are usually aware, and add to this all those
non-standard British, Irish and East Coast American dialects ...

A good example:

> blythe: D. blij, blijde; Dutch LS: blyde (North), bliy (East)

"Blithe" is a Modern English word, although it no longer belongs to the
normal everyday vocabulary of Standard English.  And the word is still very
much alive in Scots.

> plight: D. plicht

"Plight," is still a normal Modern English word, but the way it tends to be
used now is semantically a bit different.  Nevertheless, the connection is
clear: it often is used in the sense of " undertaking (of a risk or
obligation)," which isn't too far off Dutch and Low Saxon _plicht_ and
German _Pflicht_ meaning 'duty', 'mandatory/compulsory task', 'obligation'.

Even if you go to Early or Middle Modern English you will find the
connections to be fairly close.

Also, most of us don't think about this, but many Modern English words still
contain words that are "quite Lowlandic," e.g.,

>earst: cf. WF earst, LS eyrst, D eerst

This is preserved in today's "earstwhile."

> yerne/gierne: D. has gaarne not geern

Ah, thanks.  I was misled by Flemish, I guess.

Jonny:

> Ick hevv dor 'n _a_  hensett, wo 'n _o_ woll recht wat beeter weyr- van
> wegen, wat de "a"-Nedderdyytschen dat beeter begriepen dout. Hier mutt dat
> _o_ woll blyven!?

Tjer, leyve Jonny, so wyd har ik bit her tou gaar nich mit-dacht.  Du magst
wul recht hebben.

> > ...don't you agree that the language retains a lot of vocabulary and
> > morphology that makes it rather easy for speakers of Scots and of
> > Continental Lowlands languages to understand,...
>
> that's GREAT!

But did you look and duly admire?  ;-)

http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=english-m-roman
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=english-m-verse1-roman
http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/index.php?page=english-m-verse2-roman

These are not the pretty versions, only the legible ones.  ;-)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.19 (04) [D/E]

Gabriele Kahn wrote:
Actually, amber is just about the only gem that I know of that can be burnt
in a fire. Peolpe on the coast even used to burn large pieces of it when
there was no woood available (I learned tht in an amber museum in Denmark).
Whata shame!

If I can be a geological nerd for a moment, diamond burns beautifully - it's
pure carbon, after all!

Paul

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================