LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.26 (01) [E]

Thu May 26 18:24:17 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.25 (06) [E/LS]

Well, maybe it's not a midlife crisis, but it sure looked like a
"midlist crisis" to me! And you both promised it wouldn't become a civil
war...
I hope this is the end of the discussion between the two of you, because
it is really not pleasant having to read.

Gabi:
>Please tell me that you are going through a severe midlife crisis, are
>having an IRS audit, or are facing extensive root canal treatment. All of
>those could be considered valid reasons for your over-the-top reaction.

Ron:
>OK, Gabriele, you win, and you will have the last word, whatever that
might
>be.  I'll give you an "A" for persistence at least, whatever that's worth.
>You see, I keep trying to connect dots that apparently aren't meant to be
>connected.  "Midlife crisis"?  Nope. Been there, done that.   None of the
>other stuff either.  I think it's all those years of foreign brainwashing.
>You see, apparently I don't even know myself what I have said and what I
>meant, need others to explain it to me.  If I were you I'd long given up
on
>me.  So thanks for caring and holding out hope, but I seem to be a lost
>cause.  I'm sure everyone else will agree.  Everybody must be really
>impressed by our little performance.  I apologize to them for my
undignified
>part in it.  (Oops! That would be *all* of it, wouldn't it?)  And I
>apologize to you, Gabriele, for doing whatever those irrational,
undeserved
>and over-the-top things are over which I seem to hold the monopoly.  I'm
>sure we can cool down, get over the bump and regain some modicum of
decorum,
>if not agreeability and -- heaven help! -- agreement.  I still believe
that
>we are really, basically on the same side.  And (I really, really, really
>don't mean it in a condescending way) I appreciate and like you,
especially
>your sense of humor, yes, also them peanuts.

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From: Thomas Byro <greenherring at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.25 (06) [E/LS]

Re Yiddish;

There is a sizable community here in New York where Yiddish still
thrives as a daily language and that is among the Orthodox Jews.  By
sizable I mean for example Borough Park in Brooklyn where there are
several hundred thousand Orthodox Jews.  I can attest from personal
observation that it is the langauge of choice even in the home for
these people.  Outside of this community though the fate of Yiddish is
uncertain.  My friend Fred, who grew up speaking only Yiddish and had
to learn English as a second language when he entered school, never
taught the language to his children. Interestingly enough, when Fred
and I went to the New York is Books fair, I spotted Shimon Peres a
short distance away.  Fred immediately went over and began gossiping
with Shimon in Yiddish.  Clearly some of the older generation in
Israel still command this language.

Tom Byro

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Ingmar:

> "midlist crisis"

Nope, no crisis of any sort.  You're giving it too much thought and credit.
It's one of those attempts to shake things up bit.  They've come and gone
many times, inevitably turn out to be pretty meaningless in the end.

> Clearly some of the older generation in
> Israel still command this language.

It's still widely used, mostly among elderly Israelis (as is German).  Even
now I correspond in Yiddish with a number of them.  In the ultra-orthodox
Naturei Carta community it continues being the first language of everyone.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.25 (06) [E/LS]

Gabriele Kahn wrote:
"And how could "being German" be a below-the-belt blow, coming from another
German?"

I suppose it's a matter of perspective, Gabriele. You may consider certain
people to be German and, as such, not find that assertion to be offensive.
Yet if they do not feel German in the sense you are implying it may be
hurtful. For instance, most English people think of Cornish people as
English (and say so), yet as a Cornishman I find that a negation of my
identity by the very people most responsible for trying to extirpate that
identity through the centuries. Do you think it right and inoffensive that
an Englishman calls me English, not Cornish as I actually am?

Just my tuppence worth on an increasingly convoluted subject.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: Mike Morgan <Mike.Morgan at mb3.seikyou.ne.jp>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.24 (06) [E/LS/Patentplatt]

Tom Carty wrote:

> Cyrillic is extremey easy

Agreed. ... Though students ARE sometimes put off by it's foreign-ness
(though others perhaps attracted by the same).

> its easier to speak Serbain by learning in Cyrillic that
> through Latin script.

How could that POSSIBLY be so? While I too must say I prefer Serbian written
in cyrillic (but also Croatian written in latin), it a purely (cultural?)
aesthetic preference. The kirilica and latinica alpahabets used for  Serbian
are 100% interchangeable codes, with total one-to-one correspondence. They
both represent the sound system, etc of the language (though, as I said,
maybe NOT the cultural heritage) equally well. The only thing I can think of
is, MAYBE since cyrillic is "foreign" it doesn't carry the sound
correspondence baggage over from the first language of the
Anglophone/Western European learner.

> Im currently learning it.

Good luck! It IS a lovely language. Though my first linguistics professor
was a Croat (from the isles off the Dalmatian coast), as was my first
non-American Serbo-Croatian teacher (from Zagreb) a few years later ... and
I heard a bundle of quite funny anti-Tito and anti-Serb jokes (and a few
anti-mainland Croat jokes as well) from the former, as someone whose first
and second (chronologically) and first and second (proficiency-wise) were:
Russian, Ukrainian, and Bulgarian -- Cyrillic users all -- I too have a
preference for ekavian Serbian.

Mike Morgan
KCUFS
Osaka-Kobe, Japan

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