LL-L "Etymology" 2005.11.23 (03) [A/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23 November 2005 * Volume 03
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From: "Mark Dreyer" <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.11.23 (06) [A/E]

Beste Jo, Almal:

Onderwerp: Etymology

Ek hou van u voorstel van -k(e) as verkleinagtervoegsel. Sien, ons gebruik
'vaar' in stoettaal vir die mannetjie se bloedlyn, of met verwysing na die
betrokke dier, hetsy bul, ram, beer, watookal. Die teenoorgestelde geslag is
'moer'. Geen probleem met die ontleding van ieder. Die jongeling in die
vermelde verband is dan die 'vaartjie', hoesê?

Maar ek moet byvoeg ek self ken nie die gebruik nie, en dit kom nie in my
woordeboeke voor nie. Ons benoeming vir u 'var' of 'varing' is 'tollie'. Die
vroulikke, inteendeel, noem ons 'vers' of 'versie'.

> var-ken (Lim ver-k-ske).
> A 'var' or 'varing' is a 'young bull' and a 'vaars' is a 'yearling cow'.
> Bestaan die in het Afrikaans?

Om (met blose) na 'n vorige string terug te verwys, ja, die woord is ook
Kaaps Afrikaans vir die seuntjie se manlike orgaan. In my kinderdae is dit
vir my hardepad gewees om oor die vee in meisiesgeselskap te praat, en hulle
het dit al te helder besef, en ons verleentheid al te lekker geniet.

Met vriendelike groete,

Mark

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From: "Sandy Fleming" <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.11.21 (06) [D/E/LS]

> From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
> Subject: LL-L "no subject"
>
> Sandy wrote:
>
>> "kye"  /ka:i/  is Scots for "cattle" and apparently Cleveland dialect
>> too.
>
> In LS we use the same word for E:'cows'(pl.), besides LS: 'Koy' /ko:i/.
>
> BTW: _Cleveland_- does it mean 'land of clover' (LS: 'Kleyber'
> /kle:iba/) or
> 'clay-land' (LS: 'Klei' /kla:i/)? There is a town near the Dutch/German
> border, at the Rhine-river, named 'Kleve'. Could there perhaps exist any
> connection via a Dutch/Flemish settlement?

I've no idea!

Having googled, I've ascertained that Cleveland was a temporary English
county during the period of reorganisational nonsense in the United
Kingdom in the 1970's.

I'm not that familiar with the area so I don't exactly know the story,
but it's similar to what happened to the county of  "Avon" where bits of
Wiltshire, Somerset and Gloucestershire were broken off and added to the
City of Bristol so that everything could be in a county (previously
Bristol was just the City of Bristol, it wasn't in a county).

Now all the broken-off bits have been stuck back, though rather loosely,
and Avon no longer exists and once again Bristol isn't  in a county.

"Avon" was named after the River Avon (no relation to the River Avon of
Shakespeare fame in Warwickshire) that meets the sea at Avonmouth in
Bristol, I don't know what the short-lived county of Cleveland was named
after.

I've been examining my 1902 book of John Castillo's poetry to see where
I got the idea that it was in "Cleveland dialect". John Castillo seems
to have lived around Pickering, which is in North East Yorkshire.
However, a newspaper cutting I found in the book with an article _about_
the book describes the dialect variously as "Cleveland dialect" and
"North Yorkshire dialect". At first I surmised that this cutting must
have been written after the county of Cleveland had been created, but
examining the back of the cutting I found a council notice which made it
clear that the newspaper was published in 1965 or slightly earlier.

So obviously there was an area that people referred to as "Cleveland"
and probably still is, but I don't know any more about it! But it seems
to be a district in the area where North Yorkshire meets Teeside.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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